News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tony Ristola

Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« on: November 25, 2009, 01:23:48 PM »
Seeing as most folks will never make it yonder to see the place... Poland anyone... I'll be posting the construction progression photos... hole-by-hole.

I'd taken thousands upon thousands of photos during construction, so the pdf's may change a little in the future, as I stumble upon better shots.

The last shots are taken when nearing the end of grow-in.

Hole 1

Conceptual Map created early in the design/build phase; a number of design changes had been made during construction; Added Goat's Hill left of the green, Goat's Valley, a rugged slash in the land which cuts from 1 fairway all the way across in front of 18 Forward tee, fairway bunker was never built, but instead a ridge line, green position shifted, green size angle different , greenside bunker size and shape at least 10 times larger to list a few...


My Start Point: A Dog's Breakfast. The green glob is the future green site.


Hole 1: Goat's
350 to 270 meters
385 to 295-yards.

Construction Progression Photos Hole 1.
Downloadable pdf.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22054457/Sand-Valley-Construction-Progression-Hole-1-Goat-s-Agolfarchitect-com-Version-1

A Selection of Related Design/Construction Blogs:
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2007/09/new-ideas-for-greensite-1.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/05/drainage-in-gorge.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/06/goat-hill-goats-bunker.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/06/hole-1.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/06/putting-it-back.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/08/look-up-1st.html


Hole 2


The most noticeable changes to the Conceptual Map is the mound behind 3 Tee doesn't exist; it was a pile of topsoil the previous builder intended for the 3rd tee; we trucked it out. The fairway bunkers past the turn point were never built, and the waste bunker runs the entire right of the hole uninterrupted, stopping before the greensite.


My Start Point: The Turning Point: Outside of the photo to the right and left were a collection of dirt blobs, all removed.


Hole 2: Corridor
395 to 300 meters
435 to 330 yards

Construction Progression Photos Hole 2.
Downloadable pdf.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23154288/Sand-Valley-Construction-Progression-Hole-2-CORRIDOR-Agolfarchitect-com-Version-1

A Selection of Related Design/Construction Blogs:
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2007/05/those-pesky-beavers.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/06/green-plan-sketches.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/08/slashing-out-bunker-on-2.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2009/03/more-photos.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/10/photos-from-last-month.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2009/07/shots-of-2nd.html

.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 06:35:28 AM by Tony Ristola »

Adrian_Stiff

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 02:05:19 PM »
Very nice Tony.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Brian Phillips

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 03:41:05 PM »
Love the first photo Tony! Keep them coming.
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Jeff Doerr

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 03:44:38 PM »
Beautiful flow Tony - very nice!
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.”

Jeff_Brauer

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 04:57:04 PM »
Tony,

Very nice, especially the counterpoint of the ragged mounds left of No. 1 green vs the rolling fw mounds on the right.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Tony Ristola

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2009, 03:18:24 PM »
Hole 3


Conceptual Map created early in the design/build phase: The concept stayed pretty much as shown. The bunker fronting the green was moved to the right. I didn't consult this map or plans during construction, so it is interesting to compare first ideas with final product.


My Start Point: The previous builder left a pile a topsoil and clay with chunks of wood as material for the subgrade.
The area wasn't properly prepared to take the material; it was trucked out and a pile of river sand brought in.


Pretty amazing how fast the birch trees have come in.
Hole 3: Pulpit
130 to 80 meters
145 to 90 yards

Construction Progression Photos Hole 3.
Downloadable pdf.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23257133/Sand-Valley-Construction-Progression-Hole-3-Pulpit-Agolfarchitect-com-Version-1

A Selection of Related Design/Construction Blogs::
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2007/08/flip-flop.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2007/09/stripping-on-hole-3.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2007/09/pounding-in-sand.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2008/06/memories-of-3rd.html
http://sandvalleygolf.blogspot.com/2009/08/wee-bunker.html

.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 06:37:02 AM by Tony Ristola »

Steve Okula

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2009, 03:35:13 PM »
Interesting looking design. I was in Poland two years ago, maybe I'll get back. Where abouts is the project?

The grow in looks good, where did you find a superintendent?
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Brian Phillips

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2009, 03:39:37 PM »
Not sure about that last one Tony... ??? Looks a bit small to me...
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Emil Weber

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2009, 05:45:38 PM »
 :o !

Where about in Poland is this? Might only be a 5 hour car-trip from where I live....... ::)

Looks absolutely stunning.

Tony Ristola

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2009, 12:33:31 PM »
Location: Paslek, about 45 minutes from Danzig. 17km south of Elblag.

Brian... Cheers,

For the 3rd (Pulpit), I was looking at creating a demanding but not over the top short par-3. I can't remember exactly how wide the green is but it is wide enough. It's about 32 deep. There is a lot of short grass to the front, right and back of the green.

I grew up playing a couple par-3's, one that was 180-yards (usually about a 4 or 5-iron 25-years ago), and another 150 yards.
The 150-yarder had a tiny green (250 square meters) surrounded by 4 smaller bunkers and fronted by a creek. It was a hole that would have fit well into any course. The club changed the green, making it larger, and today the hole is blah. I'd love to rebuild a version of the original for them... for free.

The longer par-3 had a smaller green than this, was popped up but not as much, and the edges of the green were turned down. It had no bunkers, but was a fun hole.

I didn't think about either when building it, but they might have been in my subconscious , and though "Pulpit" is not super-wide by any measure, I think it's just wide enough. But should anyone actually get out there and have a crack at it... let me know your thoughts. I did have a couple greens that after some thought were widened, the 5th and 16th, both driveable par-4's. The beauty of being on-site all-day everyday was being able to think... not rush the decision making process. If I'd thought that green was too narrow... I would have widened it.

Compared to the 17th at TPC Sawgrass, it's a pussycat. :)

« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 12:55:10 PM by Tony Ristola »

Bill_McBride

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2009, 12:46:27 PM »
Tony, is that heather on the mounds left of #1 green?  Looks lovely!

A GCA friend of ours has a girl friend in Warsaw these days.  He will probably be very interested in this project.  Is there much golf in Warsaw, or Poland in general? 

Tony Ristola

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2009, 12:54:30 PM »
Tony, is that heather on the mounds left of #1 green?  Looks lovely!

A GCA friend of ours has a girl friend in Warsaw these days.  He will probably be very interested in this project.  Is there much golf in Warsaw, or Poland in general?  

That's fescue, and it is a mound where the goats will hang out... looking down on the golfers. Goat's Hill ties directly into Goat's Valley, which cuts in front of the forward tee on 18.

There are two new projects going in around Warsaw. At the moment I believe there are two courses.
When they finish the highway from Warsaw to Gding-Dong (Danzig, Gdansk), it will be a pretty easy drive. Most Warsawites head to the coast during the spring, summer and autumn, and this is right off the highway, with it's own exit!

What's interesting is I hadn't seen any heather up that way, or in the Mazury region, though it's sandy, and filled with oaks, birch and pine. There is some Scotch Broom, and thought it would make a good ground cover on the hillside and here and there in larger groups. Even though the climate is somewhat similar to the PNW where the stuff grows like wild fire, you can find it here, but have to look hard.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 01:02:06 PM by Tony Ristola »

Mike Nuzzo

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2009, 01:16:29 PM »
Tony
The fairway land forms in #1 look great - very squashed slug like
can you post a plan view of the hole?
are those bunkers in the shadows?
what is going on at the treeline - did you shape up to the edge?
cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Adrian_Stiff

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2009, 01:17:59 PM »
Not sure about that last one Tony... ??? Looks a bit small to me...
I agree with Brian. That may be a tall flag though which may cause a bit of an illusion, but it looks very hard to maintain that green with modern equipment. The principle I like and as a golf hole it looks fun, but with a 2 metre band around that green it looks very narrow plus it looks to have a fair bit of internal contour.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Bill_McBride

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2009, 01:55:08 PM »
Tony, is that heather on the mounds left of #1 green?  Looks lovely!

A GCA friend of ours has a girl friend in Warsaw these days.  He will probably be very interested in this project.  Is there much golf in Warsaw, or Poland in general?  

That's fescue, and it is a mound where the goats will hang out... looking down on the golfers. Goat's Hill ties directly into Goat's Valley, which cuts in front of the forward tee on 18.

There are two new projects going in around Warsaw. At the moment I believe there are two courses.
When they finish the highway from Warsaw to Gding-Dong (Danzig, Gdansk), it will be a pretty easy drive. Most Warsawites head to the coast during the spring, summer and autumn, and this is right off the highway, with it's own exit!

What's interesting is I hadn't seen any heather up that way, or in the Mazury region, though it's sandy, and filled with oaks, birch and pine. There is some Scotch Broom, and thought it would make a good ground cover on the hillside and here and there in larger groups. Even though the climate is somewhat similar to the PNW where the stuff grows like wild fire, you can find it here, but have to look hard.

Will the goats be responsible for "mowing" the rough?

When I was a kid I played a course in the Azores where there were horses who grazed the rough.  It worked pretty well.

Tony Ristola

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2009, 05:06:18 PM »
Tony
The fairway land forms in #1 look great - very squashed slug like
can you post a plan view of the hole?
are those bunkers in the shadows?
what is going on at the treeline - did you shape up to the edge?
cheers


I have a rough plan for the hole that was done early upon my arrival. It's not wholly accurate regarding bunker placement, but can clarify, or quickly rough out a new version.

The highway is behind the hill. We banged that in there as a noise buffer, some 7 meters at its highest. The trees are on the other side of the highway. In the future the hillside will be planted with bush, so the illusion should work a little better. If you click on the construction progression photo link, you can see it better. A buffer wall was started before my arrival... and they used three holes of topsoil as fill! The 1st, 18th and 5th.

The 5th runs behind the 1st, and yes... those are bunkers.

Bill,

The goats will mow some of the out of play areas. A great scheme by the owner, as their mowing patterns are unbeatable. Short with clumps... though I wish they could produce a goat that didn't smell like a goat.  The goats have been on-site for over a year, and have been the butt (no pun intended) of many jokes amongst the crew.


Adrian, there is a tier running down the middle, but mowing hasn't proven a problem. It's short cut right up to the edge of the green. The left side is light rough, only because there is a bunker collection there.

.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 05:08:46 PM by Tony Ristola »

Adrian_Stiff

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2009, 05:20:18 PM »
Tony - I need to know the numbers (width of green) really to make a proper comment, it does look a little small to my eye maybe needs 50% more width, I am thinking if you want to tripex mow that green its going to be hard, even with a 2 metre collar. The central slope towards the back could shoot a ball off the green. I loved the first two holes, this ones not far off, but agronimally a thin green minus the 2.5 metres around each edge plus the slopes is going to give the maintenance crew probems. If its 14 metres wide I withdraw the above comments.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Tony Ristola

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2009, 03:02:38 PM »
Tony - I need to know the numbers (width of green) really to make a proper comment, it does look a little small to my eye maybe needs 50% more width, I am thinking if you want to tripex mow that green its going to be hard, even with a 2 metre collar. The central slope towards the back could shoot a ball off the green. I loved the first two holes, this ones not far off, but agronimally a thin green minus the 2.5 metres around each edge plus the slopes is going to give the maintenance crew probems. If its 14 metres wide I withdraw the above comments.

Oh, it's wider than 14 meters. The 16th green (driveable par-4) was about that wide before I added 3 or 4 meters, that was one narrow sucker, and I thought about it for weeks before widening it; there was no rush. This green didn't give me any second thoughts about its width. This is more like 18-20. It is difficult to discern, but a little bit of the green extends beyond the right bunker.
Greens are walked.

Appreciate all the comments.

.


Mark Alexander

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 02:38:04 AM »
Tony,
When is the course due to open?

Jonathan Davison

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2009, 09:52:21 AM »
Bill
I am involved with a project in Warsaw, its around 35km from the centre of Warsaw. We started construction in August and have 5 holes shaped, we hope to finish the proejct next year. I think we have been lucky we have 10 metres of pure sand, and the site is surrounded in birch and pines, so its a rare opportunity for us as designers.
The other project is the Wejchat course by RTJ 2, a huge, huge budget !!  its also around 30km from Warsaw.
I have been traveling to Poland for over 2 years now and the country has some wonderful sites, similiar to the heathlands of Surrey !!!

Wade Whitehead

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2009, 11:57:34 AM »
I'm very fond of that photo of the third hole.  Your descriptions and details make it even more interesting.

Please keep us posted.  Fascinating that this is going on in a country few, if any, of us consider as a place for golf.

WW

Brian Phillips

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2009, 12:43:51 PM »
Tony,

Sounds like a complete cluster f@*k from the previous architect if it is true what you have stated on your schrib website.  That is a lot of accusation you are putting out there.  I presume the owner is one very happy chappy now!

Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Bill_McBride

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2009, 12:53:24 PM »
Bill
I am involved with a project in Warsaw, its around 35km from the centre of Warsaw. We started construction in August and have 5 holes shaped, we hope to finish the proejct next year. I think we have been lucky we have 10 metres of pure sand, and the site is surrounded in birch and pines, so its a rare opportunity for us as designers.
The other project is the Wejchat course by RTJ 2, a huge, huge budget !!  its also around 30km from Warsaw.
I have been traveling to Poland for over 2 years now and the country has some wonderful sites, similiar to the heathlands of Surrey !!!


Thanks, Jonathan.  Sounds like Poland is the place to be working these days!  All that sand does sound great.

Tony Ristola

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2009, 03:26:06 PM »
Tony,

Sounds like a complete cluster f@*k from the previous architect if it is true what you have stated on your schrib website.  That is a lot of accusation you are putting out there.  I presume the owner is one very happy chappy now!


Brian,

Yes.

It is nothing but the truth what is written and will be written. If the previous architect had stopped the builder and told them to fix the mistakes before doing any new work, I would never have seen, let alone set foot on the property. I cannot change the history, only document it, and I have photographically, with my daily blog and with the upcoming book. The place was photo documented from my first days on-site, and continued thereafter. I wrote an 11-page report for the investor after walking the place for 4.5 days. I'm not sure he believed the totality of it at the start... it was a bitter pill.

The great part is the investor has a quality golf course. It was a fun exercise with an investor who believes in firm and fast, strategy, and fun. I'm loath to publish some of the photos from September because the course is brown... LOL. I would have preferred a shimmer of light green, but perhaps next year.

For the investor it was a tough row to hoe, and after their first summer (only 6 days of rain and a great autumn/winter), we got hammered the next summer. Our longest dry spell was 10-days. The owner's  attitude could have soured easily, but he kept his chin up and eyes forward.

I'd say he is happy. Now to pump out the memberships.


Jonathan,

Say Hi to Radek for me. Good luck down there.



Mark,

It's open. Have at 'er.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 03:46:45 PM by Tony Ristola »

Tiger_Bernhardt

Re: Sand Valley Construction Progression Photos
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2009, 04:59:38 PM »
Tony please tie location to Warsaw or larger city. I am sadly in Poland from time to time. I have gf who works there. forntunately most times I meet her in Paris or London. cheers and it does look very good. Oh be careful for the forest girls. Wonderful little tradition there.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2009, 05:01:31 PM by Tiger_Bernhardt »

Tags: