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[Mac Plumart]

I've been studying golf courses and I am trying to get my arms around which courses truly brought something new to the table and were groundbreaking in some manner.  Please review what I've got so far and add in any comments you might have.  If I am wrong on a point, please let me know.  If I've missed something or overlooked a course, let me know. 

St. Andrews Old Course---first great golf course

Sunningdale (old)---first great heathlands course and first great non-links course for that matter

Myopia Hunt, Garden City, NGLA---first great american courses

Pinehurst #2--first great resort course

Pebble Beach---first great Monterrey Course

Banff---first great mountain golf course

Yale---first great heavy construction course

Augusta National...first course built for spectator golf

Desert Forest---first great desert golf course

Peachtree---first great RTJ course...large (and multiple tees), large greens...begins the RTJ era

The Golf Club---first minamlist design in the maximist era

Shadow Creek---creating something out of nothing...manmade oasis in the middle of a desert

Sand Hills---pure natural minamilist golf...first build it and they will come course

Bandon Dunes complex...is this a breakthrough facility?

Like I said, correct, critic, add, subtract, etc.

I am brainstorming and thinking out loud and would love some feedback.

[Garland Bayley]

How is it that ANGC was built for spectator golf? I doubt Bobby Jones would agree with that.

[David_Tepper]

Mac -

You may want to add Harbour Town (Hilton Head) to your list:

1) Countered the RTJ-trend of "big" golf courses.
2) First prominent Pete Dye design & introduced railroad ties.
3) Brought Jack Nicklaus into the GCA-business.

DT  

 

[Mac Plumart]

Garland...

I got that from page 88 of The Golf Course by Cornish and Whitten...

"Augusta National was specifically designed with spectator golf in mind.  Several greens were situated to provide vantage points from nearby hills.  Several mounds...blah, blah, blah"

Anyway, that is where I got it from.  If anyone, including you, feels it is wrong or that Augusta should be on or off the list for any other reason, I am all ears.

Like I said, I am looking to learn and gather feedback.

[Mac Plumart]

David...

Very, very nice!!!

Thanks!!!

[Jaeger Kovich]

What about the first successful landfill course? (not that I know what/where it is!)

Van Courtland Golf Course - The first public golf course, at least in the US.

Hirono - First great Asian golf course.

National Golf Links - First great use of template architecture.

Should Mid Ocean be on this list as well for "tropical climate"?


Also, was Yale built before Lido?

[Mac Plumart]

Jaeger...

I don't know about Lido...I will look into it.

Excellent stuff!

I love the landfill idea.  That is absolutely revoltionary.  I'll try to find out...if anyone knows, pass it along!

[Garland Bayley]

Mac,

Was Cornish and Whitten referring to the work of RTJ or BJ and AM?

[Mac Plumart]

I think the first land fill course was...

Victoria Golf Course
 Carson, California
 1962

But would Bayonne be the first "great" landfill course?

I don't know on either of these and would love some one to confirm or deny.

[Mac Plumart]

Garland...

In the paragraph prior to and following...they refer to Bobby Jones and Alister Mackenize.  So, I've got to believe that is whose work they are talking about.

[Steve Wilson]

Mac,

Though it wasn't in the desert, I think the Lido precedes Shadow Creek as something out of nothing.   If you haven't already check out Moriarity's resurrected thread from 2003.  I think it's somewhere in the first three pages.

[Mac Plumart]

Steve...

Thanks.

I don't know a lot about the Lido...but I am checking it out.

Found this old thread...

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35406.0/

Actually it is not that old.  Everyone who posts on it adds some real value to the thread.  Great starter material for an education on the Lido.  You see, this site real does impact people looking to learn about GCA.

Thanks again Steve!

[Pat Craig]

Jackson Park GC in Chicago was the first public golf course west of the Alleghenies, which opened in 1899.

The first "Country Club?" The Country Club of Brookline which was founded in 1882.

[Philippe Binette]

you can't put a list of revolutionary courses without including:

1) Harbour Town: counterpunch to RTJ style
2) Oakmont: ultimate penal course

[Scott Weersing]

Does a groundbreaking course have to have an influence on other designs?

Here are some I would consider groundbreaking:

1. TPC Stadium- how many other courses now have island greens?
2. Caledonia Golf & Fish Club- this was the first Mike Strantz course and led to Royal New Kent and Tobacco Road
3. Chambers Bay Golf Club- public links golf, not sure if its model will be copied again
4. Alden Pines Country Club, the first course with salt tolerant seashore paspalum, http://www.paspalumgrass.com/salttolerant.asp
5. Inniscrone Golf Club in Avondale, Pennsylvania. The first design by Gil Hanse which led to Rustic Canyon and others. http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/gil-hanse-2

[Michael_Hendren]

Wild Dunes - the first ocean-side course with linksland terrain (10,11,12,17,18) built in this country in decades and a harbinger for the return of modern golf course design to the sea.

[Tim Gavrich]

Yale perhaps, for its exposition of the power of man-made golf course architecture.

[Morgan Clawson]

Is it fair/correct to claim that Augusta National was the 1st course designed primarily to hold a significant or major tournament?

[Lester George]

I think the Old White would have to be considered one of the first great resort courses.  1914 MacDonald, 1922 Raynor.

Lester

[DMoriarty]

It is all pretty subjective . . .

1. I don't think Garden City, Myopia, and NGLA should be lumped together.   Garden City and Myopia were built pre-1900, and while they both reportedly morphed into very good courses, I am not so sure they started out this way.   Plus, they were both very different types of courses.   Even the changes and improvements at Garden City and Myopia focused on difficulty, whereas NGLA was the wholesale application of the fundamental links golf principles in America, and its impact was truly revolutionary (arguably, even on the two other courses you group with it.)

I would say that the first three good 18 hole course in America were Chicago Golf Club, Myopia, and Garden City.  I think Chicago, Myopia, and Garden City were considered the best in America but they were not considered great on an international scale.  In contrast, NGLA was considered World Class, America's first truly great golf course, and one on equal footing with great courses abroad.   

If you want to avoid the good/great discussion, then I think it would be reasonable to say that NGLA was the first course in America wholely based on the underlying strategic principles of the great holes abroad. 

2. ANGC may have been built for spectacular golf, but like another above, I am not sure it was the first course built for spectacular golf.  CPC seems pretty spectacular.   The setting was certainly a factor at Pebble.  Even NGLA was chosen in part at least for the spectacular setting.    In fact one could argue that just about the only thing that the very early version of Shinnecock had going for it was its spectacular setting near the Ocean.

3. Not sure I understand the significance of some of the categories, like "first great Monterey course."

4.   I don't know much about The Golf Club, could you briefly describe it and its influence?

5.   I agree that Sand Hills was a very importnat course.  I view Bandon as important because it took the great land combined with minimalist concept and applied it outside the private course setting.  It is one thing to convince a few hundred people to support a club, but quite another to survive as an out of the way public.   Although it is arguable, I view I view Rustic similarly in that it proved that understated but sophisticated minimalist architecture could succeed even at the lower end of the price scale.  I haven't played it but Wild Horse may fit in this category as well.

6.   I don't know that Augusta was built to be a major tournament course or if that was more of a plan to generate interest in the course (and the hotel employing Jones)  I'd say its major impact though has come with its television exposure, but that impact hasn't necessarily been a good thing for golf.

Like I said it is all pretty subjective.

[TEPaul]

Mac:

As you know fairly recently I've been particularly interested in the very first really good golf architecture in America.

As seems to be confirmed by contemporaneous accounts from back then (including Macdonald's) the first good courses and architecture in America were Myopia, GCGC and Chicago GC. The first two both preceded NGLA by almost a decade and the latter by almost fifteen years.

I don't know that much about the entire architectural history of Chicago GC at Wheaton so I have no real idea how much it has changed since its beginning in the mid 1890s. Myopia and GCGC ironically are courses that happened just about simultaneously (with apparently little to no collaboration of ideas between their architects) right around 1900 and were pretty much the way they are now with their routings anyway. Myopia is probably the most similar now to back then. And as such it very well may be the FIRST of the best really early American golf architecture laboratories we have today that has changed the least from the furthest back. Some of the greens of GCGC were changed from back then and with Myopia fewer still were changed from back then (by my count probably only 2-3). Bunkering over the years was a somewhat different story on most all those courses because the interesting similarity with them is that their architects all kept working on improving them in little ways for many years and often decades. The same modus was true with Oakmont (1903), NGLA (1908), Merion East (1911), Pine Valley (1913).

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mac,
Royal Calcutta, as the first golf club established outside of the British Isles.

[Mac Plumart]

David...

Thanks for the input/questions.  There is so much there to go over, that I would like to take it one by one and give each one its due...if it is okay with you, I would love your feedback as we go.

David and Tom...

I loved the knowledge being laid out in the CB MacDonald thread laid out a few days ago.  But things got murky after awhile, but I would like to detail my thinking and questions on these courses to get my arms around the issues.

I wanted to put down only NGLA as the first great american course, but I am confused a bit on some of the issues.  Perhaps you guys or others can help clarify things.

Per all of my research and study NGLA appears to me to be the historic landmark course in American architecture...but according to the records I've found its founding date was 1911.

I keep a list of "unanimous gems", which are golf courses that all the big 3 raters (GD, GW, and GM) rank as among the top 100 courses.  And Garden City is on that list with a founding date of 1899.  Furthermore, Cornish and Whitten detail GCGC in The GOlf  Course as a Landmark Course.

However, they detail Myopia first in their Landmark American Courses chapter.

So, I am confused on this one.  Another thing that gets me is how much of the original course was truly quality and how much was built over time, potentially after NGLA.

This is why I didn't just go with NGLA as the first great American course.  

Thoughts, questions, comments, are welcome and appreciated.

[Jim_Kennedy]

....and I think North Berwick deserves mention as the first golf club that allowed women, although they couldn't play in competitions.

[Mac Plumart]

Tom...

Myopia has always stood out to me as a groundbreaking course.  I think that was why it was talked about first in the Cornish/Whitten book.

Why does it seem to get overlooked so much now in the Top 100 lists?

[Jim_Kennedy]

There's also The Curragh Golf Club, the oldest golf course in Ireland.

[Ulrich Mayring]

Sunningdale wasn't the first great heathland course, that was either Woking or Huntercombe. The significance of Sunningdale in my eyes is that it was the first course where

a) The site was cleared to make room for golf.
b) The course was grown from seeds.

Ulrich

[Jim_Kennedy]

edit: same post as b) above

[Mac Plumart]

Man...This is awesome.  I want to respond to everyone, but I think that would make a mess of things.  I am reading, taking notes, and the like.  Great stuff.

Talk to me about the Heathlands.  My understanding is that people tried to set up golf courses away from the links, but were unsuccessful until Park (wasnt he they architect) has some success.  Sunningdale, Huntercombe, Woking have been mentioned.  

Park did Sunningdale and Huntercombe, right?

Who did Woking?

The significance of the Heathlands breakthrough was that it opened up peoples eyes and minds to the idea that golf could be played away from the links,  and Sunningdale brought in the idea that land could be clear and courses could be groomed right.

Wasn't Colt involved in this somewhere?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mac,
The work at Sunningdale also showed that you could produce something other than wet clay to play on away from the shore.

[Mac Plumart]

Jim...

Am I going to far saying the given all this Sunningdale is an historic course and representative of one of the first great non-links courses, the first great course groomed by an architect (cleared and grown from seed), but also the first make the land first the course?

I think Sunningdale just made my "must play" list.  Amazing history!

[DMoriarty]

I think Myopia, Chicago, and Garden City were all Landmark courses, but their influence was nothing like that of NGLA.   NGLA changed the entire approach to golf design across America.


The timeline of NGLA was misleading because they originally planned to use a local in instead of a clubhouse, but the Inn burnt to the ground.   The club was not officially open until a clubhouse could be built and opened in 1911.   But they were golfing in the course in 1909 and the first tournament was held in 1910.   

I'm doing this off the top of my head, but I believe the timeline for NGLA is something like this
1901 - Motivated by the best and most difficult holes discussion in Golf Illustrated, CBM came up with the idea for NGLA.
1902 - CBM traveled abroad to further study the great courses, with the idea of bringing them to the US.
1904 - The charter members agree to a general approach to creating the course.
        - Second study trip abroad.
        - Articles begin appearing nationwide about CBM's plan, and a debate/criticism begins in the British press about it.
1906 - Third study trip abroad. 
        - NGLA land secured (by option allowing for much flexibility in the exact final specifications) after Whigham and Macdonald ride the site and find a rough routing.  (This set the best practice for creating a golf course)
        - Planning completed and construction begins.
        - Discussion and debate continues.
1907 - Construction finishes and course seeded.
1908 - agronomy problems delay opening, some (all?) greens and turf reseeded .
        - Shinnecock Inn, which was going to be used in leau of a clubhouse, burns to the ground.
1909 - First play on the course, work and refinements continue.
1910 - Play continues, first tournament, work and refinements continue.
1911 - Clubhouse completed, and tournament held for the "official" grand opening of the Club.  CBM still reportedly tinkering well into the 1930s.

_______________________________________

When I look at the significance of these early courses, I try to put myself into the mindset of those there, and figure out what they thought was significant and try to look at the influence various courses had.    Myopia, Garden City, and Chicago were all considered good courses, for America.  But among those who knew both, they generally did not compare favorably to the great courses abroad.   NGLA did. 

[TEPaul]

"Per all of my research and study NGLA appears to me to be the historic landmark course in American architecture...but according to the records I've found its founding date was 1911."


Mac:

For starters, some of the dates we use can get misleading. Sometimes clubs use the date they were incorporated (as clubs) sometimes GCA analysts use dates when the design and construction begun, sometimes when it finished, and sometimes they use the dates when they opened for play. NGLA was incorporated in 1908, went into design and construction, there was some very limited play on it in 1909, and then in 1910 and it was formally opened for play in September 1911.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mac,
Yes, I think that's a fair assessment. The four guns of the day who started building in the Heathlands were 'architecting' up a storm out there. 

[Mac Plumart]

Sweet...thanks David.  

On point #2...did I type in spectacular golf?  I meant spectator golf.  Meaning people could come to watch a tournament.  This was also touched on by Morgan Clawson.  My bad on the typo!

Point #3...pebble beach first great monterray course.  I'm grasping at straws trying to figure out a way to make Pebble the first great course of something.  Wasn't it a ground breaking course for some reason?

Point #4---The Golf Club...didn't this introduce minimalism, during RTJ's maximism reign?  isn't that significant/revolutionary?  Wasn't it also Pete Dye's first great course?  Is that ground breaking in and of itself?

Like always, I am asking you guys for input.  I've read about these courses, played some of them, but I am not dead set on the fact the my opinion is correct...I am all ears!