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Jay Flemma

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I'll post more after I write my GolfObserver.com article, but here are some pix.  I'll post more when I get time.

Number 2 green from the right.  The green slopes severely to the left, but it held for me today from here:





Number 3...a Bottle Hole it seems:






The cool cross bunkers to carry at 5.  The greens at 3 and 5 slope severely away from the player!  I love it!





par-3 6th...so cool.  George, what kind of hole is this?  Whatever it is, it's terrific!  Look at the bunker to carry off the tee!





the 14th green on the Alps hole!!! (side view)






tee shot on the alps (14)





The redan (15)





And the Principal's Nose at 16




Enjoy!
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 05:20:37 PM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Essex County NJ photos
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 07:09:40 PM »
Jay,
Nice photos from such an overcast day and the course looks superb.

One question, I don't think that the 14th is an 'Alps', pretty sure its constructed as the "Lion's Mouth".



"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

George_Bahto

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Re: Essex County NJ photos
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 07:18:20 PM »
Jay, the 6th is Tillinghast version of Redan - note the kicker on the right, way into the green for one thing.

About 3 years ago we deepened the pot bunker in front and able superintendent Jason Thompson expanded the green dramatically to the left rear and actually in near all directions. That green is now about twice the size it was when Gil and I started the project.



What you are calling an Alps is a raised, two level punchbowl green (short yardage), the green guarded by a great (Banks) Lions Mouth bunker. He really like the LM bunker - used it a lot.

The next hole #15 is an off center(line) Biarritz not a Redan - very different than any other Biarritz he and his mentors built.
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Essex County NJ photos
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 09:48:59 PM »
Thanks for that guys!  It'll come in handy for the piece.

What an astounding course.  Congrats to all involved.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Matt_Ward

Re: Essex County NJ photos
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 10:48:50 PM »
Jay:

Great pics from a dreary day today.

The short 14th is one hole at ECCC -- there are others -- that get so little attention.

The superb long par-4 12th is also one of the very best long two-shotters you can play in all of NJ -- especially when the pin is cut far to the left.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Essex County NJ photos
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 09:02:10 AM »
George, teach up all something...the swale at 15 is almost imperceptible...as in nowhere near a swale like Yale, Forsgate, etc...even the knoll's is much more pronounces.  You can see in my picture that its just a gentle rise, but no dip.  Did you find out it was a biarritz through writings?

How about 14?  You have a huge bunker complex that must be carried to a punchbowl green.  brian silva taught me those are the hall marks of an Alps and has built several like that.  Were you able to glean that from articles from back in the day?

Also, is 12 a Road Hole?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 09:18:51 AM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Essex County NJ photos
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 10:15:05 AM »
Jay asked:

"the swale at 15 is almost imperceptible...as in nowhere near a swale like Yale, Forsgate, etc...even the knoll's is much more pronounces.  You can see in my picture that its just a gentle rise, but no dip.  Did you find out it was a biarritz through writings?"

the swale was probably deeper but there is such a drainage problem there I think they "shallowed" it .... (nice word: "Shallowed" - hah) .......................... how did I figure it out? it's a Biarritz - modified to fit the land (so much for the "template-gang" ;)   ) - they built a Biarritz on every 18-hole course, it was the par-3 with the 200-plus yardage



JF: "How about 14?  You have a huge bunker complex that must be carried to a punchbowl green.  brian silva taught me those are the hall marks of an Alps and has built several like that.  Were you able to glean that from articles from back in the day?"

OK, if that's what you were "taught" - fine  ....   but that's a great version of an elevated, two-level Punchbowl with the Lion's Mouth guarding the green



You asked about 12:

Banks labeled it a Hog's Back hole in an article he wrote about the course ...................... however it has a Road Hole green complex (some of it removed by your afore-mentioned archie) and on the green there is a "Maiden" feature in the back section

Where did I learn all this??    background: (a dry cleaner for 45 years .....    :P


If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Essex County NJ photos ***and link to article about george's work***
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 05:22:03 PM »
Sal just posted my piece.  Apparently he has a typo or two in a sub-headline he added and there is some weird formatting, (everywhere I put an apostroph, Sal's program put a weird mark?!  Does everyone see that or just my computer?) WTH??  But the meat and potatoes are fine.  Again, the audience is every golf fan, not architecture experts.  We're trying to educate everyone.

http://www.golfobserver.com/blog/blognews/Jaystakeongolf/2009/11/20/georgebahto
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 05:23:56 PM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Essex County NJ photos ***and link to article about george's work***
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 05:42:06 PM »
Jay:

I see them too! There are some Spanish letters and accents popping up here and there :-\

Dónal.

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Essex County NJ photos ***and link to article about george's work***
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 05:44:33 PM »
They aren't like that in my piece.  I'll let it sit for a day for Sal, then run it on my site clean...without the weird carats and such.  Thanks to George for the work on it.
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

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