News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Please note, each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us and we will be in contact.


Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« on: November 18, 2009, 07:13:21 PM »
Ironic that Steve Shaffer just posted an article on Scott Anderson, at Huntingdon Valley CC... very interesting.

I'm wondering what it takes to convert a comparatively damp and soft course - where Poa dominates in a wet climate - to a more consistently dry and firm course? But, more so, what "pains" are inevitably encountered during such a conversion process?

Seems like a simply question. I'm sure answers are complicated and specific to individual situations. Regardless, I look forward to hearing from the grass experts in this forum on this important issue.

Thanks in advance,

jeffmingay.com

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 09:28:55 PM »
You need to seed bent grass in the aeration holes every spring, and then just hope that you may get some of it to grow and establish. It is very hard to get bent grass to establish in competition with existing Poa annua plants.

A lot of it depends on how much bent you already have, and what species it is. And also how much sun you can get to the greens. I had a set of greens that were in full sun, and less than 50% bent - in 10 years I had them to over 75% bent, and that was just from keeping them lean and dry. Balls would bounce off those greens. But if I had started with plus 75% Poa annua in the shade, I don't think I could have gotten that kind of conversion.

In this economy it is not advisable to put any club through "pains".

But meanwhile, you should treat the greens you have, as much as possible, as though they were pure bent, so that the little bit of bent you have will be favored. And while you are doing that, a lot of the Poa is going to adapt to those expectations. There are strains of Poa that are just as good as any bent if not better. In fact, I am working with a set of greens now that have Poa annua strains that I think I prefer over bent grass - they are that good.  :D







« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 09:31:12 PM by Bradley Anderson »

TEPaul

Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 09:50:19 PM »
Jeff:

Fantastic thread!

Comparatively simple?

No way!!

I was watching Scott Anderson give a speech about this at my place around a year ago and halfway through it I could just seem him stop and think-----wait a minute---I've been doing this for 25 years and maybe I shouldn't purvey the message that it is all that simple!  :)

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2009, 10:05:07 PM »
Brad,

Great post. Thanks... And, yet another reason why I need to get to Birmingham CC. Ain't gonna happen soon though, I'm in Victoria and Seattle for the next few weeks!

See ya soon though.
jeffmingay.com

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 09:24:26 AM »

 There are strains of Poa that are just as good as any bent if not better. In fact, I am working with a set of greens now that have Poa annua strains that I think I prefer over bent grass - they are that good.  :D


This might be the first time a Pro has made positive comments about Poa. As a player who lived on the coast for a while, I learned to appreciate the weed, for it help me learn about adapting to the playability. It helped, that the super only mowed every other day, so one HAD to learn the differences.

Bradley, In the above quote were referring to playability aspects or the agronomic? I took as being about playability knowing some of your background in creating healthy F&F turf.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Greg Cameron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 10:20:19 AM »
2 inch slit drains installed on 2 meter centers(fairways) is very effective here in lowermainland where poa is prevalent.Northview in Surrey was first,and I think it took 2 years for trench scars to fill in(seeded with rye).Greens would be remove and replace existing turf.It is awesome.Big bucks though.....Greg

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 01:27:05 PM »
 
 Ran's interview with Scott Anderson, though not poa centric, answers many questions . . .

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-with-scott-anderson-part-i-august-2005
 
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Michael Rossi

Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 05:06:51 PM »
Jeff

I would agrre that it depends on the location. And many factors would come into play such as the environemental conditions heat, season length, rainfall. What has worked for me in the east takes a different approach where I am in the west.

Some questions that would need answering from the powers that be would be how fast a conversion are they looking for and what type of conditions are they willing to deal with during the change over.

If the mandate was a conversion that ensured solid turf cover and the course was to remain open, I would think that moderate top dressing, hollow tyne areification (remove the cores, poa does better in compacted areas compared to bent) and overseeding 3 time per season (spring, early summer, early fall), watering in favor of bent (deep and infrequent) and use of a growth regulator to suppress the poa would help but would be a lengthy transition.

If the conversion was to be quick and play could be stoped for say 6 weeks; install drainage in problem areas, heavy topdressing, aggressive aerification (removing the cores) spraying a product like velocity (kills poa and leaves the bent) heavy overseed, quick release fertilizer every 3-5 days with .5 N, watering like you would for a grow-in. Once the bent is up and filling in, back off the fert and water. From that point forward it is about the maintenance.

The super would have to revamp his maintenace practices and perhaps his equipment.

To keep the poa from taking over is tough but can be done especially with the chemicals and equipment that is available.

The challenge could be with getting the cheque signers to "buy in", it takes changing peoples perception to what good golf is. 

« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 05:54:16 PM by Michael Rossi »

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Poa: Damp and soft to dry and firm?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 06:40:18 PM »
Poa is the nine headed hydra of all grass.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back