[Dan Herrmann]

I was thinking about tree removal projects, and I started thinking about the terrible loss of almost all elm trees here in the USA.  I remember the size and beauty of elm trees as a youngster, and how their loss really hurt my hometown of Buffalo, NY.

A quote, "Once upon a time in America, great leafy high-arching cathedrals of elms lined the streets of villages and cities from the Atlantic to the Rockies, casting a deep cool shade upon life's turmoil."

If the loss of a species like the elm could have such an effect on a city, how did the loss of the elm affect golf courses?

[Tyler Kearns]

Dan,

I'm not sure how the loss of elm trees have affected courses historically, but it does demonstrate that the design of a golf hole should never hinge upon a single tree. Disease and/or lightning could negatively affect the hole overnight.

TK

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Does anyone know if there any elm trees left at Old Elm Club outside of Chicago?

[Adam Clayman]

Well said Tyler. I sure hope Jason Topp (?? not sure if it was he) reads that because there was a thread the other day where his solution to proposed question was to plant a tree to dictate the strategy for the big hitters.

Dan, My first reaction to your question was that once the old elms died more trees were planted in their place. Making the disease even worse for golf courses, in the long run.

Thank goodness places like Beverly CC have seen fit to prune away the excessive rows of trees planted every decade from the 40- 90's.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The elm tree lined Mall on  Penn State's main campus has been adversely affected by elm disease. Take a look:



http://live.psu.edu/album/1833

[Jim_Kennedy]

If you were going to have trees on a golf course Elms were/are the perfect choice. When grown their long trunk/high crown means no low branches to run into with mowers or backswings. 

Great shade on a hot summer's day, too.

[Tom_Doak]

Dan H:

How about this:  Dutch Elm disease ruined the idea that you could build a good golf hole with trees as a part of the strategy.

Before the disease, there were lots of great golf holes where American Elm trees came into play.  They were the PERFECT golf tree, because their high arching branches allowed recovery shots from underneath.  Perfect, that is, until they all died at once.

Then, clubs overreacted and planted three maples or three spruces where one elm used to be ... so the trees were closer to play and had low branches that prevented recovery shots ... and once they grew out, they gave the whole idea of trees on the golf course a bad name.

I disagree with Tyler and Adam that trees have no place in play of a golf hole.  I've seen some great holes that are made by trees.  The fact that the tree will eventually grow too much or die, is not reason to decline having a great hole around it for the next 20 to 50 years.  If you cut down the tree and try to build a bunker to replace it strategically ... you'll probably be moving the bunker a lot sooner than 50 years, because the bunker only has impact in 2-D.

[Dan Herrmann]

Tom  -  thanks for the answer.  That's exactly what I was hoping for.

Take the Country Club of Buffalo...  When I was a young kid in the 60's, elm trees were everywhere.  I'm betting CCB had great elm corridors that would've been lost during the '65-'75 period when most all the elms died.

I just read that there may be a new vaccaine for Dutch Elm disease.  If it works, I wonder if the grand elm could return to golf in the next 20 years.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Dan,
There are also several different disease resistant varieties available today. They reach 25/30 feet in 10 years and they could make it to 100 feet in 40 years. The trunk will be about a half foot in diameter in 10 years and 3 feet or so in 100 years.   
The've been replanting many of the ones that have been lost where I work, and quite a few of the old ones made it until recently.

[Bradley Anderson]

In the top ten issues effecting the game in the US I think you would have to include Dutch Elm Disease.

I just had a conversation this morning with a local superintendent. He has silver maples that are beginning to encroach on some playing corridors and they are causes real turf problems with shade and root issues. I have the same issues at my club. Both our clubs lost hundreds of Elms to Dutch Elm disease. The Elm tree is the perfect tree for golf courses. What a shame they all died.  We still have a couple left at our golf course and they are just incredible. When those trees died golf courses really lost something and naturally they would have planted a lot of trees that were quick growers. Those quick growing trees are having a big effect on the game. I think they also effect the cost of maintenance in a big way.

[J_ Crisham]

Well said Tyler. I sure hope Jason Topp (?? not sure if it was he) reads that because there was a thread the other day where his solution to proposed question was to plant a tree to dictate the strategy for the big hitters.

Dan, My first reaction to your question was that once the old elms died more trees were planted in their place. Making the disease even worse for golf courses, in the long run.

Thank goodness places like Beverly CC have seen fit to prune away the excessive rows of trees planted every decade from the 40- 90's.

Adam,  If memory serves me, I believe we only have one Elm tree left at Beverly which is on the walk from 16 green to 17tee. I recall being told that this tree receives an annual shot? Not sure what the prognosis is for this tree. I would agree that our aggressive tree removal program has made for a better course in terms of turf quality and the health our greens.   Jack

[Chuck Brown]

I actually bought one of the "Princeton Elm" trees as a mail-order product from an advertisement in the back of The New Yorker magazine.  Damndest thing.  When I got it, it was about the size of a putter, with its root ball in a container the size of a large coffee cup.  The trunk was as thick as a pencil.  It was more of a "stalk" than a "trunk."  Today, seven or eight years later, it is about 30 feet tall, with a tunk about seven or eight inches in diameter.  It's already a nice tree; I think it is going to be a magnificent tree in the future.  The Princeton Elms are supposed to be Dutch Elm resistant.

I agree with Tom Doak exactly with respect to elms and golf course architecture.

[Jason Topp]

The University of Minnesota golf course lost a huge number of Elms.  Even though it changed the look of the course, I was shocked at how little it changed the actual course.

Adam:

If a tree dies it can be replaced.  Several of the holes at Aiken and Camden Country Club had trees next to the tee that rewarded working the ball one way or another.  Aiken rewarded a draw, Camden tended to reward a fade. (look at the pictures). I did not hear a single complaint. 

[JC Jones]

I agree w/ Tom D that the effect of Dutch Elm was not fewer trees but more trees than before the disease.

[Bill Brightly]

I agree w/ Tom D that the effect of Dutch Elm was not fewer trees but more trees than before the disease.

I don't know, JC, I think Earth day in the 60's and the Augusta Effect had clubs planting trees like crazy, with or without Dutch Elm disease. If there was an open space between two holes, a tree was getting planted there...Spruces and white pines were the cheapest and fastest growing, and that is what got planted, at least on most courses in the Northeast US.

[JC Jones]

I agree w/ Tom D that the effect of Dutch Elm was not fewer trees but more trees than before the disease.

I don't know, JC, I think Earth day in the 60's and the Augusta Effect had clubs planting trees like crazy, with or without Dutch Elm disease. If there was an open space between two holes, a tree was getting planted there...Spruces and white pines were the cheapest and fastest growing, and that is what got planted, at least on most courses in the Northeast US.

I agree, there were certainly other reasons that lead to more trees being planted but I think Dutch Elm had an impact.  For example, there is a course in northern Michgan that lost 100 trees to Dutch Elm and dealt with that by planting 2-300 more.

[Adam Clayman]

Jason, Tom,  I'm no Chipoat (but have used his locker)
 I never said all trees were cancers on the fields of play. However, using them in the context I specifically mentioned does seem to bother me. i.e. stopping someone from being creative, or, stopping big hitters.

The other REAL negative to Elms is experienced this time of year when the leaves fall. Golfing and constantly looking for your ball is not a grand experience whatever the reason. 

[Jon Wiggett]

As I understand it dutch elm has just reached the Scottish Highlands which was one of the last areas (if not the last) in Britain

[Dan Herrmann]

I visited Longwood Gardens in Kennett Square, PA yesterday.  Beautiful place with world-class landscape architecture.

Turns out that they have a healthy, large elm tree.  I last saw elm trees as a kid, and forgot how magnificent they are.

Looking over the tree for a few minutes, I quickly realized how our golf courses suffered due to the loss of this species.  There were absolutely NO branches within 25' of the ground.  The canopy was stunningly beautiful.  This was, perhaps, the perfect tree for American golf.

Even worse is what its loss did to our cities.  I grew up in Buffalo and faintly remember driving through the city looking up at the "roof of trees" above us.  All those trees are gone now.

[Gary Slatter]

If you were going to have trees on a golf course Elms were/are the perfect choice. When grown their long trunk/high crown means no low branches to run into with mowers or backswings. 

Great shade on a hot summer's day, too.

Elms are the perfect golf course tree.  Sadly, the replacement trees were often not elm, and golfers lose out seeing the magnificence of a 60 foot elm, and the fun sliding a ball around it.

[SL_Solow]

Jack, many in the Chicago area have been injecting elms for over 20 years.  I believe the chemical is arbotect, a fungicide. I believe there are other fungicides in use and there are at least 2 types of delivery systems. In any event, it is not a perfect solution, some trees after treatment may contract the disease and it is expensive, but it has helped.  At Briarwood we continue to maintain several mature elms including Judge Lavin's least favorite tree.  They are wonderful trees.

[Ian Mackenzie]

My small and anecdotal contribution is as follows...

We just completed a restoration at Flynn design in Chicago. Lots of trees came out; mostly sucker trees and sick ash trees.
However, we have many elms and some have now grown substantially and are blocking some playing angles.

As an example, we have a 400 yard, Par 4 dogleg right that bounds down a small hill at about the 265 mark. It also kicks left. On Friday, I creased a drive that rolled to the bottom of the hill but rolled left and entered 5 feet into the rough. (We do not have an intermediate cut .) there is an old elm tree at the bottom of that hill and my "great" drive was now denied clean access to the green by a low-hanging branch of that tree.

On Saturday, I saw our super riding the course with our tree removal contractor/consultant. (I am on Grounds and Greens.)  after discussing this with them, and pending our consulting architect's approval, I proposed that that branch be removed. Not so easy...even if it is agreed, the tree expert reports that trimming elm trees (in the manner I supported) makes them more susceptible to Dutch elm disease.

Don't want to lose a tree just to cut a branch. So, yes, this does affect architecture and strategy. And , yes, my solution is just to aim farther to the right.

[Dan Herrmann]

Ian - this may be the case where preserving the trees is more important than pure golf.  Thanks for sharing your story!

[Terry Lavin]

My small and anecdotal contribution is as follows...

We just completed a restoration at Flynn design in Chicago. Lots of trees came out; mostly sucker trees and sick ash trees.
However, we have many elms and some have now grown substantially and are blocking some playing angles.

As an example, we have a 400 yard, Par 4 dogleg right that bounds down a small hill at about the 265 mark. It also kicks left. On Friday, I creased a drive that rolled to the bottom of the hill but rolled left and entered 5 feet into the rough. (We do not have an intermediate cut .) there is an old elm tree at the bottom of that hill and my "great" drive was now denied clean access to the green by a low-hanging branch of that tree.

On Saturday, I saw our super riding the course with our tree removal contractor/consultant. (I am on Grounds and Greens.)  after discussing this with them, and pending our consulting architect's approval, I proposed that that branch be removed. Not so easy...even if it is agreed, the tree expert reports that trimming elm trees (in the manner I supported) makes them more susceptible to Dutch elm disease.

Don't want to lose a tree just to cut a branch. So, yes, this does affect architecture and strategy. And , yes, my solution is just to aim farther to the right.

Wouldn't want to lose a tree just to lose a branch just because you happened to hit it, but maybe the tree doesn't belong there at all. I'm not much of a believer in totem trees on a golf course, regardless of the species. If it's in play, chop away.

[John Connolly]

David,

For mortal players, which Ian is not, right is dead on that hole too.

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