TPC Sawgrass

[Mac Plumart]

I am looking for opinions on this one...

I played TPC Sawgrass this weekend.  Fantastic course!!  BUT...it is $400 to play.   And for me that is ok, IF you get a $400 round in terms of quality.  For me that includes the overall experience in addition to the quality of the course.

Here is my question...

Is it worth it to you guys to play a course of the stature and quality of Sawgrass for that much money, given that you wait on every tee box for the group in front of you to clear off the fairway and green and the round takes about 5 hours (maybe more on a slow day).

I am thinking it isn't worth it...but am I overlooking the quality of that architecture?

[Rob Rigg]

Mac,

Maybe just one time?

I have seen the course from behind the ropes at the tournament and thought it would be a fun, but very challenging, round that I would be up for, but not at $400, waiting on every tee.

Falling out of rhythm on a course like that would make for an especially long day. Although you would have lots of time to focus on the GCA!

Jeez, your figure that for four hundo they would have 20 minute gaps in tee times or something?

Did you enjoy it? Which was your favorite of the three that you played?

[Bill_McBride]

If Pebble is not worth $500 to me, how could Sawgrass be worth $400?   

I played there in a scramble - miserable experience but it was free.

[Mac Plumart]

Rob...

That is exactly what I was thinking.  20 minute tee times, as packed as they were at those prices would still make them some serious money.  I could only rationalize that they were trying to maximize revenue rather than trying to maximize the experience of their patrons.  Short-term that might be good, but long-term it can't be as good.

Concerning the courses...

TPC was my least favorite in terms of the overall experience...but I still enjoyed myself very much.  It just got a little tiring on the last 4 or 5 holes.  It was my least favorite Pete Dye courses as it seemed a little too much at times...as few to many moguls or hills, etc.  But it was very nice.

Black Diamond Ranch Quarry was very nice.  Two seperate courses within one course really.  13 holes of high quality residential golf and then 5 holes of stunning beauty.  3 of the Quarry holes were amazing.  One of ok, and one was a little ridiculous.  But in all, I think it was my favorite of the three I played.  I recommend it to anyone.

World Woods Pine Barrens was excellent and for $60 it was the best value by a long shot.  Probably 4 truly memorable holes, 10 very solid holes, and 4 holes that were eh...but for $60 I am totally fine with that.  Once again, I recommend it.

All in all great trip, but I won't go back to Sawgrass.  I am glad I played it...it was a very good course...but too much money for too little of a true experience.

[Mac Plumart]

Bill...

I've never played Pebble.  I will one day, but I have concerns over the speed of play.  Is it slow as heck?

[Bill_McBride]

Last round there was in 1978, pace was okay then.  I think it's slowed considerably since then.  Cart paths only will do that.

[Mike_Trenham]

I agree it is worth the price for a single play.  Also at that price and pace of play I am glad I played it with three good friends, walking with over priced caddies that talked too much for our tastes.

There is a lot going on there on the ground at TPC Sawgrass and I found it to be one of those courses where the fairways appeared wide but there is a best place to approach the greens from on each hole.   I also played it while they were building the clubmansion so we may have gotten a discount.

Single thing I like best about the course is that it is 100% man made yet there is a ton of strategy and tilt to each of the fairways.  I also wondered constantly what it was like day one as built by Pete Dye vs. today as revised by years of modifications and the PGA Tour Architecture Department.  Now I know the course was a lot less manicured when it opened but has that effected the strategy that much if they get it firm.  The story is it has been softened a ton since opening but I bet 50% of that is normal increase of thatch in the turf and 30% equimpent improvements and the rest is design changes.  The added pine trees on left side of #16 stood out as really stupid and ugly (I can say this as I don't have a friend that is a member).

How well I can remember each hole is alway my first test and I can remember all the holes pretty well and features that stood out for me.

[Garland Bayley]

$400 to play that pond filled nightmare? Where's the true game of golf as originated by the Scots? See the quote in my tagline.
 

[Mike_Trenham]

$400 to play that pond filled nightmare? Where's the true game of golf as originated by the Scots? See the quote in my tagline.
 

Garland have you played the course?  Yes the last three holes are covered with H2O for TV drama but the rest of the course has minimal water in play for the decent golfer.

[Alex Miller]

I've played PGA West stadium, not Sawgrass.

THAT was worth it. I paid $80 and played in three hours with my brother who had only been playing for 6 months at the time.

Unless Sawgrass is in a league that destroys PGA West, it might not be worth it. Think about this, if you take away the trees at Sawgrass, how different are those courses?

[Ryan Admussen]

Sawgrass has never been very high on my must play list, no real reason one way or the other, but $400 seems really steep

[Jason Topp]

It was never high on my list, but I got the opportunity to play with a member for a reasonable rate and was truly amazed at how good the course is.  It is much more playable than I expected.  The par fives and par threes are about as good as it gets. Playing at a familiar tournament site makes the experience memorable.  Strategic decisions exist throughout the course.

As to pace of play, I think our round took 5 hours, as did my round at Pebble Beach.  It did not detract from the experience at all for me.  I just relaxed and enjoyed the setting. 

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Mac:

From a European perspective, $400 is totally crazy. I just don't think it's worth it. You guys in the US are being ripped off big time.

Dónal.

[Scott Warren]

Donal,

$400 = £235.

So you're paying in the same ballpark to play Sawgrass as Turnberry, Valderrama (300 euro) or TPC Wentworth in Surrey.

Whether $400/£235/e300 is crazy depends on how deep your pockets are.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Donal,

$400 = £235.

So you're paying in the same ballpark to play Sawgrass as Turnberry, Valderrama (300 euro) or TPC Wentworth in Surrey.

Whether $400/£235/e300 is crazy depends on how deep your pockets are.

Scott:

Yes, I agree that everything boils down to how deep your pockets are. I just don't think it's worth it when you compare those courses and prices with the likes of Muirfield, TOC, RSG, etc.

Dónal.

[Bill Brightly]

What makes it worth $400 is the fact that the PGA plays a tournament there every year, so you get to watch on TV and be able to view a course that you have played. Beyond that, is is very over-priced when you consider how many great courses you can play for half the price or less.

I have played it several times as a guest of a large company that picked up the tab for an advisory council I served on. We played Stadium-Valley-Stadium and most of us liked playing the Valley course better. It certainly was in better condition and had far less play, but that was 20 years ago, so I can't tell you exactly why

[Mark Pearce]

Donal,

$400 = £235.

So you're paying in the same ballpark to play Sawgrass as Turnberry, Valderrama (300 euro) or TPC Wentworth in Surrey.

Whether $400/£235/e300 is crazy depends on how deep your pockets are.

Scott,

Indeed.  And none of them are worth the money either.  Let me see, £235 for a round at Sawgrass or £180 for 36 holes at Muirfield, or £130 for TOC?

[Scott Warren]

Absolutely, Mark. I was merely seeking to point out that it isn't just "you guys in the US" paying huge money for some arguably overrated golf courses (I have not played any that I listed, and among them am only ever likely to play Sawgrass - maybe - because I have been watching it on TV and playing it in games since I was 10).

Looking forward to my USA trip next year I have been wrestling with the idea of playing Pebble. I very recently decided that looking at what else I can get for that US$500, it simply isn't worth it to me, but I can accept that to other people it may well be a no-brainer to play it.

Aussies keep telling me golf is expensive in the UK. I have to say that I feel it is tremendous value.

[Kevin Pallier]

Donal,

$400 = £235.

So you're paying in the same ballpark to play Sawgrass as Turnberry, Valderrama (300 euro) or TPC Wentworth in Surrey.

Whether $400/£235/e300 is crazy depends on how deep your pockets are.

Scott,

Indeed.  And none of them are worth the money either.  Let me see, £235 for a round at Sawgrass or £180 for 36 holes at Muirfield, or £130 for TOC?

Scott

It's all relative to the individual

I'd pay that money for Muirfield and TOC - I wouldn't pay it for Pebble and TPC

[PCCraig]

I think it's worth it and I only played it once a long time ago but would love another crack at it sometime in the future.

Considering if you are already in FL, there are only about 7-10 courses in the entire state actually worth playing, so instead of playing 4 crap residential swamp courses you can play one of the best in the State. Sure 17 and 18 get alot of the press, but there are some great holes and greens there.

[Anthony Gray]

Bill...

I've never played Pebble.  I will one day, but I have concerns over the speed of play.  Is it slow as heck?

  I have played PB around 15 times and at no time was it slow. The rangers and caddies do a good job with the pace. I do not know why it has the slow rep.

  Anthony

,

[Anthony Gray]

  It is a must play even at that that price. Is there better golf for your money? Yes.

  Anthony

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Scott,

Indeed.  And none of them are worth the money either.  Let me see, £235 for a round at Sawgrass or £180 for 36 holes at Muirfield, or £130 for TOC?

Isn't there a small lunch included in the Muirfield green fee as well?

[Mike Hendren]

I'm highly reluctant to spend another man's money and $400 means different things to different people. 

From a purely architectural perspective I consider it a must see course for the dedicated student.  While entirely man-made, its shaping is spectacular - particularly around the greens and while the element of water is omni-present it is brilliantly utilized.  It is a highly strategic golf course wrapped in penal clothing. 

As for pace of play, I've come to consider it a blessing when playing an architecturally interesting golf course.  More time to look around, forward and backward.  Besides, with apologies to W. C. Handy, I often think "I'd rather be here than any place I know."

Back to the ridiculous greens fee, I lhave come to love golf course architecture more than playing and recently dropped my club membership to save $400 monthly.  I can't wait to re-deploy that budget line item toward playing some of the greatest golf courses in the world - and I would rank TPC Sawgrass among them.

Mike

[Adam Clayman]

 13 holes of high quality residential golf   

The ambiguity of this statement should not go on without notice.

Or, is it oxymoronic?