I'm confused

[Mac Plumart]

Guys, I know that I am still a newbie to the site and the game and, therefore, I might not have the credibility that some of you have.  But to me that is irrelevant.  I love this game so deeply and I believe this love rivals anyone's on the planet.  So I am going to speak my mind.

I just got back from a weekend golf trip, which I enjoyed very much.  Upon checking the site, I see what looks like a bunch of ridiculous behavior breaking out.  A bunch of guys on the MacDonald threads are mad as heck at each other and calling each other names and using profanity.  There is a Tiger Woods thread where more anger and hostility is being thrown back and forth.  And what is ironic, is that the Tiger Woods thread is all about his classless and outlandish behavior.  People are talking about the game being a gentlemens game and that Tiger is breaking that "rule".  Well, what are we doing on this site?  It seems crazy and I am confused.

Nevertheless, I post pictures of some of the courses I played and ask some architecture based quesitons regarding them on my "Course to learn from" thread.  In the 5 hours they've been posted, I've gotten 3 responses.  Good solid responses that I am very please with, but these other threads have gotten 10 times that...at least.

So, I am confused.  Aren't we all drawn to this site to discuss golf architecture?  Even if we don't get that specific, aren't we all drawn here by a love for golf?  If so, shouldn't we uphold the classy nature of the game?

I am sorry for this OT thread, but my hope is that is turns it back on topic.  And feel free to comment on my latest question on the "Course to learn from" thread.

And if anyone is upset with me regarding this post and me being new.  I am sorry you feel that way, but I feel that I am right and I am not afraid to stand up for the game I love.

[Ryan Admussen]

I was thinking the same thing

[Ryan Admussen]

on a sidenote how is Georgia in April for golf?think im going to do a little circle between north/south carolina and georgia in April

[Garland Bayley]

Mac,

Welcome to GCA.com. The place where discussions of architecture get ignored most all of the time.
Since such discussion get little attention, if you try to spice them up, and add personal interest, you get lambasted for being flippant.
I hope you can find a way to get what you want from the website, while stearing away from all of the emotional response crap that has no basis in reason.

GB

[Scott Henderson]

Welcome to GCA, and thank you for this posting.  After lurking on this website for several months before joining I decided that when I joined I would just ignore the unsavory, usually OT, threads and not be a part of the problem.  I know this does not make me part of the solution, but it works for me.  Garland has bretty much hit the aced it with his comments.

[Mac Plumart]

Fair enough guys and I get it, but I've got to honest there are some EXCELLENT threads that get totally ruined by a lot of this ugliness.  

Anyway,

Ryan...April in Georgia is the, arguably, the best time for golf in GA.  Give me a shout if you come down.

FYI...I've got a group going up to Pinehurst at the end of April/beginning of May.  You mentioned you are going to be in NC/SC/GA at that time.  If you want to, you are more than welcome to link up with me.  A few other GCA guys might hook up with us as well.  It would be cool.

Either way, if you make it to GA at anytime I would love to meet you and play some golf.

Oh yeah...I was smiling ear to ear looking at your pictures of Bandon.  How sweet that looked!!!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mac,

Yeah sometimes I get as confused as a goat on Astroturf around here.....I get as confused as a breast fed baby at Hooters.....I get as... well, I could go on all day, but only have one bit of advice....

Don't dare mention Merion! 

And don't be a gca not named Doak, Coore, or Crenshaw and expect any respect around here!  Hell, I almost changed my screen name to "Rodney D"......

[Anthony Gray]

  The only sure thing on this site is a well timed photo of MOM.

  Anthony

[DMoriarty]

Mac,   I understand the sentiment of your post.   Believe me it is no pleasure to be involved in some of the uglier threads, but I'll leave that discussion for another day.  

As for your post on the other thread,I have a couple of thoughts and suggestions.

1.   If you have specific questions or a change in topic, consider a new thread.   I had followed your courses to learn from thread as I am sure others have, but haven't looked at it in a while.  I'd probably return to it at some point to see if anything more interesting has come up, but it is not the kind of topic that anyone would necessarily be looking for new questions or information.

2.  Five hours is a fairly short time, at least for me.  Some of us occasionally have lives and cannot constantly monitor all the goings-on on every thread.  This is especially so if we are caught up in one of the ludicrous threads you mention above.   I know that is part of your point, but sometimes one gets caught up in a thread that hasn't fallen apart and it makes keeping up with other posts difficult.   It is impossible to read all the threads under the best circumstances.  

3.  Whenever you are posting about particular courses that haven't been seen or played by a large cross-section, it can be difficult to get a conversation going.    Many will not post on a course they haven't played for fear of being lambasted for doing so.  Others are unlikely to post unless they are familiar enough to have something to say.  

4.   I suggest you keep trying without trying to force the issue, because there is a lot to learn and talk about, but you might not always be able to control the timing and pace.  

For what its worth.

David.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mac,

Stuff seems to happen here.  

My only advice is not to start another thread on NGLA even if you are overwhelmed after playing there for the first time. If you do, my friends in the CIA will take drastic measures.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Mac,

At a very advanced age I avoid reading stories of depavity, child abuse and other sorts of aberrant behavior as well as not watching movies with gratuitous violence. I have seen enough in real life not to want to plough through it again and enjoy that which is pleasant, gentle and enjoyable. Some  might want to say I am pollyanish, maybe so, but that is how I want to spend my twilight years.

It is the same with some of the fervor of our contributors to GCA. Some like the cut and thrust of aggressive debate and others, like yourself are taken aback by it. My advice is to participate in that which you find pleasure and avoid like the plague those discussions on certain courses in Pennsylvania which generate enough heat to to warm a million homes in the cold northern winters.

As P.G. Wodehouse would say, best wishes from the Oldest Member.

Bob

[Bill_McBride]

Mac,

Yeah sometimes I get as confused as a goat on Astroturf around here.....I get as confused as a breast fed baby at Hooters.....I get as... well, I could go on all day, but only have one bit of advice....

Don't dare mention Merion! 

And don't be a gca not named Doak, Coore, or Crenshaw and expect any respect around here!  Hell, I almost changed my screen name to "Rodney D"......

Hey, I wrote some very respectful stuff about the Wilderness.

What else can I do for ya?   Call ya "Rodney"?  I don't think so.

[Bill_McBride]

Mac,   I understand the sentiment of your post.   Believe me it is no pleasure to be involved in some of the uglier threads, but I'll leave that discussion for another day.  

Then why do you keep doing it?   

Just curious.  Some of those arguments --- there may be three active threads right now --- are obviously deadlocked.

Although I think I did see Tom Paul agree with you on one recently.   

Sorry for the thread jack, Mac, irresistible impulse the only defense!

[Ronald Montesano]

Bravo, Young Mac.  We should never again let the human barrier that is the internet strip us of our basic human respect for each other.  I write "again" because I've fallen victim to the dark side, to the surge of power that anonymity can provide.  I'm off to read your other thread, in the hope of being able to contribute something legit.

[Garland Bayley]

Mac,   I understand the sentiment of your post.   Believe me it is no pleasure to be involved in some of the uglier threads, but I'll leave that discussion for another day.  

Then why do you keep doing it?   

...

Was that a serious question?

[DMoriarty]

Mac,   I understand the sentiment of your post.   Believe me it is no pleasure to be involved in some of the uglier threads, but I'll leave that discussion for another day.  

Then why do you keep doing it?   

Just curious.  Some of those arguments --- there may be three active threads right now --- are obviously deadlocked.

Although I think I did see Tom Paul agree with you on one recently.   

Sorry for the thread jack, Mac, irresistible impulse the only defense!

Sorry Bill, I don't want to hijack the thread.  Maybe another time.

[Ryan Admussen]

Fair enough guys and I get it, but I've got to honest there are some EXCELLENT threads that get totally ruined by a lot of this ugliness.  

Anyway,

Ryan...April in Georgia is the, arguably, the best time for golf in GA.  Give me a shout if you come down.

FYI...I've got a group going up to Pinehurst at the end of April/beginning of May.  You mentioned you are going to be in NC/SC/GA at that time.  If you want to, you are more than welcome to link up with me.  A few other GCA guys might hook up with us as well.  It would be cool.

Either way, if you make it to GA at anytime I would love to meet you and play some golf.

Oh yeah...I was smiling ear to ear looking at your pictures of Bandon.  How sweet that looked!!!

sounds good! Cuscowilla is the only course I know I'll be playing for sure in Ga, definitely up for a round or two!

[TEPaul]

Mac:

We talked on the phone and my advice to you was just to go with your emotions on architecture whatever it might be. As far as this website is concerned and what happens on it----just don't worry about it----don't even think about it my good young friend---just go out there and find the courses and architiecture YOU like and learn to live with what you like. If you know yourself, that's all you will ever need from golf and from golf course architecture!

You're not confused and you never will be if you can live by and believe in that.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Mac:

You'r not the only one confused. I'm amazed that people get so heated about topics as trivial as bunkering at NGLA, and the definition of a Cape Hole. If the contributors were talking face to face, would they get so heated? I don't think so. I think that's what people should remember when they begin to write such stinging posts. Just because it's a text based discussion, it doesn't mean that you forget about good manners, respect, civility, language, etc.

Dónal.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mac,
Here's a hard truth, there are literally hundreds of posts to be found having to do with the courses you recently played buried somewhere in the 350k + posts that have been made on this site. Plus, you came back to your thread on a Monday evening, posted some pictures, and wrongly thought that should generate some instant responses, give it some time. At that time of day, and given that there isn't any 'new' subject matter, I'd be happy if I got a few people to respond, and anyway, talking about the architecture of Florida courses does better after Jan 1st. 

As far as behavior, I know that on occasion I get on the long end of an argument, but I have never taken anything that anyone said about me to heart, and I hope that 'agreement' is reciprocal. 

As for the site going astray, I can only say that I've never seen it stay that way for more than a brief period, and if you look at the first page, right now, 6:30 am EST, you'll see that architecturally related topics dominate the board. Now, you may not like the passions that arise on some of them, but the best advice is to avert your eyes. 
 

[Giles Payne]

Mac

Me too - there are some great threads on here but sometimes I find that you have to wade through some malodorous stuff to find them. I am starting to get some feeling for where the more interesting comments come from and try to follow the people. However, some of the "best" (personally interesting) line of discussion appear in the most unexpected places. I guess you just have to find your way around.

[PThomas]

whenever i see people getting SO worked up about topics here, for some reason i always think about one of my wife's cousins...he was in his late 50s i think, in good shape, a nice guy, had a nice wife, etc..

anyway, when Clinton got elected he changed:  whenever we saw him at a party you could barely saw "hi Tommy, how are you?" before he would start ranting and raving against Clinton...it was like he was obsessed with these thoughts

the poor guy dropped dead one day some years back

i wonder if his obsession stressed him out so much that it killed him

[Anthony Gray]

  Mac,

  Nice thread. I had the same thoughts after a couple months on the site. The golf bug bit me the same way it did you and I had these romantic notions that golf transended all other sports. I feel that golf is great for the land it is played on and for the people that play it. As a gentelman's game a since of fraturnity should prevail. That is not the case at times on this site and I share your disapointment.

  It is refreshing to se  you jump in. Keep it up.

  Anthony

[PCCraig]

GCA is like walking into the "Men's Grill" at most golf courses.

Every one has a bunch of tables with little circles of guys talking about whatever is on their mind, usually golf infused but not all the time. Some tables are filled with guys who only talk about golf courses, some talk about Tiger, some talk politics. The only difference with GCA is that it's an international discussion board with 1500 participants. People choose to sit at a table for their own reasons and sometimes participants are quick to combine tables to double up on the discussion, but it always comes full circle.

Anyway it's not the best thing for the board to have huge angry threads on Merion, Tiger, and politics. But it's not the worst thing either because you can only talk about the "Hidden Gems of Long Island" so much.

[Mac Plumart]

Guys...GREAT posts!  Even the private ones that expressed their, uh, um...I'll just say "displeasure" with my post.  

Regarding Anthony's post (and others similar to it), I would like to make a comment on...

Golf to me is a gentlemens game and by trying to adopt the principles of this gentlemens game, my attitude, behavior, and life have been transformed for the better.  For sure, we are all human and I curse, get angry, and behave poorly from time to time...no doubt about it.  But I am trying to make an effort to get better...and it is working.  I think Ghandi said something like; be the change you want to see in the world.  Well, I'm giving it a shot.

And the vast majority of people I have encountered have responded positively to this.  However,  there are some that react in a negative way.  But what I've found is that if you dig deeper and get to know them a bit, there is usually a reason for it.  And if you can then reach that person who was initially negative with respect and kindness, they usually turn the corner and become the biggest and best advocates for the cause.

Anyway, I just want to say that I love this site and I love the game of golf.  I am 100% sincere in this claim.  I don't like the game a lot or think it is ok.  I love it!!!  And the people I've met through this site, played golf with, talked with on the phone, have all been first class to me, and if there is anything I can ever do for them...they know where to find me.  If you love and respect this game, you are a friend of mine...whether we've met or not and regardless of whether we see eye to eye on all the issues.