[PThomas]

..then one day she came home saying how she doesnt understnad how a member of her schools fottball team can get  TOTALLY FREE ride to Yale if he gets his ACT score up to 23

That would be a need-based scholarship, not an athletic one.  No athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.

First off, I'd like to thank Mike S for creating what appears to be on the surface the mother of all OT threads by bringing together such a wide array of topics and weaving them together so seamlessly.  Truly inspiring....you must be a Stanford grad right?  

Secondly, if anyone feels Tiger has brought nothing to the table you are crazy.  Other than making a small village of people around him filthy rich he has indeed done a lot of charity work for under-priveleged kids and so forth.  Throw in his marketing ability to get people to buy products and he hasn't done too bad despite his oft-noted bad behavoir on the course.

Thirdly, I would agree Stanford is brutally tough to get into....hell even Cal was out of my league but only because of certain policies that were in place at the time.  Lets just say I had some friends who got into Cal with less than a 3.0 GPA because thier heritage was different than mine, and even though I had far better credentials I didn't even bother wasting my time with the application.

Lastly, put me in the camp of those who think its a joke to put Tiger in the Stanford HOF....a complete and utter joke...but then again I'm not surprised as my general opinion towards "higher education" in general is more than slightly jaded.

Paul,
 Would you feel better if  he was given a need based scholarship and didn't play football?
What was the paid attendance at the most recent Yale quiz bowl?

Srtanford already lowered (in fact dropped) the bar by giving McEnroe HOF status.

Jeff, i'd feel better if his football skills werent valued so highly that his signifcantly lower ACT score will still get him a free ride

and because footall brings in more attendance and money that makes this fair?  not in my book

[Jud_T]

FYI- Lacross prowess is the best way to get into an Ivy League school...

[Will MacEwen]

So what is the GCA equivalent of going for a 2-point conversion at the end of a game that you have an insurmountable lead in? 

Putting a bunker in the middle of an island green?

[jeffwarne]

..then one day she came home saying how she doesnt understnad how a member of her schools fottball team can get  TOTALLY FREE ride to Yale if he gets his ACT score up to 23

That would be a need-based scholarship, not an athletic one.  No athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.

First off, I'd like to thank Mike S for creating what appears to be on the surface the mother of all OT threads by bringing together such a wide array of topics and weaving them together so seamlessly.  Truly inspiring....you must be a Stanford grad right?  

Secondly, if anyone feels Tiger has brought nothing to the table you are crazy.  Other than making a small village of people around him filthy rich he has indeed done a lot of charity work for under-priveleged kids and so forth.  Throw in his marketing ability to get people to buy products and he hasn't done too bad despite his oft-noted bad behavoir on the course.

Thirdly, I would agree Stanford is brutally tough to get into....hell even Cal was out of my league but only because of certain policies that were in place at the time.  Lets just say I had some friends who got into Cal with less than a 3.0 GPA because thier heritage was different than mine, and even though I had far better credentials I didn't even bother wasting my time with the application.

Lastly, put me in the camp of those who think its a joke to put Tiger in the Stanford HOF....a complete and utter joke...but then again I'm not surprised as my general opinion towards "higher education" in general is more than slightly jaded.

Paul,
 Would you feel better if  he was given a need based scholarship and didn't play football?
What was the paid attendance at the most recent Yale quiz bowl?

Srtanford already lowered (in fact dropped) the bar by giving McEnroe HOF status.

Jeff, i'd feel better if his football skills werent valued so highly that his signifcantly lower ACT score will still get him a free ride

and because footall brings in more attendance and money that makes this fair?  not in my book

Paul,
I have a daughter who's being recruited currently for her field hockey skills (clearly field hockey doesn't bring in the money football does) She's also a great student-yet no one has contacted her about her academic skills or attended one of her tests, but they have contacted her and attended several of her games.

Your daugher is being accepted to the school, just not given a free ride.
The football player is being told to get a certain (albeit lower) academic standing and he'll then be accepted.
The full ride (which I'm not sure I understand in an Ivy league school) is coming because of his football skills-(perhaps under the guise of need based).
If they drop the football program(or raise their admission standards) your daughter is still going to have to pay (although with her academic credentials I'm sure there's some money to be had)
Colleges are looking for well roundedness, but the student athlete at an Ivy league college is still going to have a tough road to graduate, particularly if they stretched a bit to even get admitted.

[PThomas]

..then one day she came home saying how she doesnt understnad how a member of her schools fottball team can get  TOTALLY FREE ride to Yale if he gets his ACT score up to 23

That would be a need-based scholarship, not an athletic one.  No athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.

First off, I'd like to thank Mike S for creating what appears to be on the surface the mother of all OT threads by bringing together such a wide array of topics and weaving them together so seamlessly.  Truly inspiring....you must be a Stanford grad right?  

Secondly, if anyone feels Tiger has brought nothing to the table you are crazy.  Other than making a small village of people around him filthy rich he has indeed done a lot of charity work for under-priveleged kids and so forth.  Throw in his marketing ability to get people to buy products and he hasn't done too bad despite his oft-noted bad behavoir on the course.

Thirdly, I would agree Stanford is brutally tough to get into....hell even Cal was out of my league but only because of certain policies that were in place at the time.  Lets just say I had some friends who got into Cal with less than a 3.0 GPA because thier heritage was different than mine, and even though I had far better credentials I didn't even bother wasting my time with the application.

Lastly, put me in the camp of those who think its a joke to put Tiger in the Stanford HOF....a complete and utter joke...but then again I'm not surprised as my general opinion towards "higher education" in general is more than slightly jaded.

Paul,
 Would you feel better if  he was given a need based scholarship and didn't play football?
What was the paid attendance at the most recent Yale quiz bowl?

Srtanford already lowered (in fact dropped) the bar by giving McEnroe HOF status.

Jeff, i'd feel better if his football skills werent valued so highly that his signifcantly lower ACT score will still get him a free ride

and because footall brings in more attendance and money that makes this fair?  not in my book

Paul,
I have a daughter who's being recruited currently for her field hockey skills (clearly field hockey doesn't bring in the money football does) She's also a great student-yet no one has contacted her about her academic skills or attended one of her tests, but they have contacted her and attended several of her games.

Your daugher is being accepted to the school, just not given a free ride.
The football player is being told to get a certain (albeit lower) academic standing and he'll then be accepted.
The full ride (which I'm not sure I understand in an Ivy league school) is coming because of his football skills-(perhaps under the guise of need based).
If they drop the football program(or raise their admission standards) your daughter is still going to have to pay (although with her academic credentials I'm sure there's some money to be had)
Colleges are looking for well roundedness, but the student athlete at an Ivy league college is still going to have a tough road to graduate, particularly if they stretched a bit to even get admitted.

Jeff, i'm not sure what you are driving at with your last post..esp re your last sentence..so they might have to work hard to get the degree, so what?  you are supposed to EARN your degree, its not promised to you just because you are accepted

[George Pazin]

Because Mike brought up Stanford, I feel compelled to recount one of my favorite scenes from The Simpsons:

Setting: a jail in Florida, where the Simpson family has been arrested

Lisa: Oh no, I'm going to have a criminal record - now I'll never get into an Ivy League school!

Bart (singsong): You're goin' ta Stanford, you're goin' ta Stanford!!

 

[Kevin_Reilly]

George, more about the Simpsons and college references:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/stanford-university/314935-lisa-simpson-doesnt-like-stanford-why.html

[Mark Bourgeois]

Paul T,

It may be all about the money, but football at Ivy League institutions -- as well as at most if not virtually all highly-selective universities -- is a net money loser.  University subventions to athletic departments cover the shortfalls.  For example, in 1998 Columbia's athletic department "officially" reported revenues of $7-million and total expenses of $6-million; however, the entire athletic program generated direct revenues of only $500,000, the remainder being a subvention from the university.  Ivy League universities in 1998 spent an average of $9,400 per student-athlete, meaning that fielding a football team even of only 60 ate up all the revenues generated by football, basketball, baseball and hockey.

The "official" Hollywood-esque accounting treatments do not factor in capital expenditures, either.

Whatever the rationale for "athletic preference" as it's known in the Ivy League, it's not to pump out football revenues.

Mark

[George Pazin]

Paul T,

It may be all about the money, but football at Ivy League institutions -- as well as at most if not virtually all highly-selective universities -- is a net money loser.  University subventions to athletic departments cover the shortfalls.  For example, in 1998 Columbia's athletic department "officially" reported revenues of $7-million and total expenses of $6-million; however, the entire athletic program generated direct revenues of only $500,000, the remainder being a subvention from the university.  Ivy League universities in 1998 spent an average of $9,400 per student-athlete, meaning that fielding a football team even of only 60 ate up all the revenues generated by football, basketball, baseball and hockey.

The "official" Hollywood-esque accounting treatments do not factor in capital expenditures, either.

Whatever the rationale for "athletic preference" as it's known in the Ivy League, it's not to pump out football revenues.

Mark

I think the admissions office would tell you it's to increase diversity, the holy grail of most Ivys.

Kevin, thanks for the link, that opening post is hilarious.

[Rory Connaughton]

Jud - Try squash prowess!

[Rich Goodale]

Whatever the rationale for "athletic preference" as it's known in the Ivy League, it's not to pump out football revenues.

Mark

Correctomundo, Marco, but.....

.....one could argue persuasively that the rationale is to pump out gifts and legacies from the alumni.

Fight Fiecely Haavad! and aw that......

[Mark Bourgeois]

Agreed, but that's irrelevant to the level at which a university chooses to compete.

[David Kelly]

Is Woods the first athlete to go into the Stanford HOF without graduating?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

John McEnroe went to Stanford. He's listed in the HOF:

http://www.gostanford.com/trads/stan-trads-hof.html

I don't think he graduated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McEnroe

[Bob_Huntley]

With apologies to my good friend Rihc, "You can always tell a Stanford man, but you cannot tell him much."

Bob

[Sean_A]

Well Paul, if it means anything to you, I am not in favour of sports scholarships (how did these things ever get labeled a scholarship?) nor am I in favour of lowering standards to admit jocks.  By all means, we can have sports at the college level and these sporting experiences can impart all the positive attributes they are given credit for, but why do we need to create sports machines to achieve this? Mind you, if I had it my way, I would close down at least half the universities in the US (and the UK for the matter).  With the serious competition for seats from Asian students, prospective students wouldn't have time to be serious athletes, but they could do it for fun and friendship - just as it was meant to be originally. 

Ciao

[Mark Bourgeois]

Does anyone think a liberal arts education would have helped Tiger develop into a mature person with the emotional capability to control his embarrassing golf course behavior?

Tom Watson: B.A. in psychology
Tiger: ho hum, another Div 1-A "student"-athlete dropout

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