Pacific Dunes vs Aiken GC

[Eric Smith]

Those who've played them both, how do you split 10 rounds?

[Eric Smith]

Ok, that's not really what I'm asking.  Clearly, these are two different public golf models.

One is ultra successful both commercially and critically and they charge a fortune for a round of golf.

The other I will asssume makes money. At $20-$37 a head it takes it in a bit more slowly then the other I would imagine.

But if golf is ever to grow again, how many more Bandon type models do we need? How many Aiken's?

Can't a golfer come off both of these golf courses similarly full from their day on the course?

If a man had good land for a golf course, would he go into it with a plan to charge 150 to 300 dollars per round or take a different path and build a course that could be enjoyed for 30-50 dollars?

I'm told Pac Dunes is mind blowing good.  Hopefully I'm there in 6 months.  But I was plenty full after Aiken.  Is there that much more to eat?

[Kalen Braley]

Nah...there's nothing to it...just a pretty face!!   

[Alex Miller]

I haven't played Aiken,

but there's a reason why people will pay for Kobe beef.

Aiken seems nice and all, but you'll see why Bandon gets the talk it does. There maybe dozens of Aikens (again I haven't played going only off of photos), but in the U.S. there really only is one Bandon Dunes.

Again, I'm biased but others will agree.

[Eric Smith]

I have never been but am a huge fan of BDGR.  It looks like the perfect place to go play golf.

I could've inserted Erin Hills instead of PD.

Hundreds of dollars vs. 2 Andrew Jacksons. That's what I'm getting at.  And let me say that I'm a golf whore, will and have spent the big cheese on this game for a long long time.  Just glad to come across a place like Aiken.  What a throwback.

[Matt Harrison]

Keep in mind that when Bandon Dunes opened, you could play 36 holes for under $100 per round.  The initial greens fees may have been $90?? 

With Bandon, the demand was great enough that the greens fees went up significantly over time. 

In my opinion, the golf world needs both- well-designed, moderately priced courses, and great courses on very good land that may cost more- both because of some higher expenses in construction and because the demand is there.

[Alex Miller]

I have never been but am a huge fan of BDGR.  It looks like the perfect place to go play golf.

I could've inserted Erin Hills instead of PD.

Hundreds of dollars vs. 2 Andrew Jacksons. That's what I'm getting at.  And let me say that I'm a golf whore, will and have spent the big cheese on this game for a long long time.  Just glad to come across a place like Aiken.  What a throwback.

No doubt Eric,

I'm a college student so I'll take a Rustic Canyon or Aiken anytime!!!

[Mark Pritchett]

I guess it would depend on who is paying!

[Bill_McBride]

Apples and oranges, Eric!

If I can get out to Bandon, I won't be thinking about Aiken.

If I'm in Aiken, I will play Palmetto and Aiken 5/5.  Aiken was that good.

Oranges makes me think about Anthony's Saturday outfit.  Pretty cool.

[Emil Weber]

What golf needs? 10000 courses like Rustic Canyon.

[Kyle Henderson]

Ok, that's not really what I'm asking.  Clearly, these are two different public golf models.

One is ultra successful both commercially and critically and they charge a fortune for a round of golf.

The other I will asssume makes money. At $20-$37 a head it takes it in a bit more slowly then the other I would imagine.

But if golf is ever to grow again, how many more Bandon type models do we need? How many Aiken's?

Can't a golfer come off both of these golf courses similarly full from their day on the course?

If a man had good land for a golf course, would he go into it with a plan to charge 150 to 300 dollars per round or take a different path and build a course that could be enjoyed for 30-50 dollars?

I'm told Pac Dunes is mind blowing good.  Hopefully I'm there in 6 months.  But I was plenty full after Aiken.  Is there that much more to eat?

When I played Pacific Dunes 1 year ago, my morning round cost $70, the rate dropped tp $40 in the afternoon.

[Emil Weber]

Kyle:

How is the condition in winter? Do they manage to keep it f&f?

[JC Jones]

Eric,

I think I understand what you are saying.  I walked off Aiken having had a great time and feeling totally fulfilled with my experience.  I walked off PacDunes feeling the exact same way.  So I get it, why PacDunes over Aiken if they both leave you feeling the same way and does the $200 course make you feel 10 times better than the $20 course.

I have a difficult time dealing with the psychology of this question as well.  I can tell you that my desire to play PacDunes is probably 10 times what it is to play Aiken but I dont think courses can be compared by dollar amounts even though I compare courses by dollar amounts all the time.

In short, I dont know but I understand the question.  Nobody at the Dixie Cup loved Aiken more than me (based upon my willingness to do the blasphemous) and I would still rather play PacDunes 8-2 over Aiken.  But the world is better with places like Aiken.  Places built before you could move a lot of land.  When choice of site and routing determined the greatness of a course more so than construction ability and budget.  I guess thats why PacDunes is a modern day throwback, because the land was chosen for its ability to yeild a phenomenal golf course and the routing is second to none.  Its everything thing the great classic courses are and yet somehow better.

[Anthony Gray]

  I'm going with 10-0 Pac Dunes. There is a reason why hidden gems remain hidden.

  Anthony

[Mike Hendren]

That's like asking "who has the better main street, Disneyworld or Franklin, Tennessee."

Franklin:


Disneyworld:


Note: I'm not implying that Pacific Dunes is artificial or staged in any way.

FWIW, I'd rate Aiken a 5.5 and Pacific Dunes an 8.0-8.5 but would play Aiken 7 out of 10 times - a reflection of my acknowledged bias.

Mike

[Eric Smith]

Eric,

I think I understand what you are saying.  I walked off Aiken having had a great time and feeling totally fulfilled with my experience.  I walked off PacDunes feeling the exact same way.  So I get it, why PacDunes over Aiken if they both leave you feeling the same way and does the $200 course make you feel 10 times better than the $20 course.

I have a difficult time dealing with the psychology of this question as well.  I can tell you that my desire to play PacDunes is probably 10 times what it is to play Aiken but I dont think courses can be compared by dollar amounts even though I compare courses by dollar amounts all the time.

In short, I dont know but I understand the question.  Nobody at the Dixie Cup loved Aiken more than me (based upon my willingness to do the blasphemous) and I would still rather play PacDunes 8-2 over Aiken.  But the world is better with places like Aiken.  Places built before you could move a lot of land.  When choice of site and routing determined the greatness of a course more so than construction ability and budget.  I guess thats why PacDunes is a modern day throwback, because the land was chosen for its ability to yeild a phenomenal golf course and the routing is second to none.  Its everything thing the great classic courses are and yet somehow better.

You are a beacon of light Jason.  Where were you when I was pondering this subject yesterday?  If I had you to temper the mishmash that is coming from my brain I wouldn't have needed to float my cornfused thread out to sea.  I think I need to scuttle the ship...we've no direction home.

[Eric Smith]

Thanks also Matt and Kyle for pointing out that BDGR didn't always charge $$$ for a round of golf.

[Sean_A]

I have only seen pix and both look very fine.  I disagree with the esteemed Bogey - everything can be compared - only it takes a good writer to convey the message.  This sort of question really gets at the heart of what we value in golf and makes us think about when is a course good enough and what should that cost.  Part of the reason we have such problems today in the industry is because folks never asked when is enough enough.  Instead, people just pay and hope their cash buys fond memories.  A little bit of reflection on these matters is time well spent.

Ciao   

[Eric Smith]

I have only seen pix and both look very fine.  I disagree with the esteemed Bogey - everything can be compared - only it takes a good writer to convey the message.  This sort of question really gets at the heart of what we value in golf and makes us think about when is a course good enough and what should that cost.  Part of the reason we have such problems today in the industry is because folks never asked when is enough enough.  Instead, people just pay and hope their cash buys fond memories.  A little bit of reflection on these matters is time well spent.

Ciao   

Sean:

Thanks for your post.  I would love to have you re-wrap the question and present it as your own.  It can be any two (good) courses from both ends of the $pectrum.  I doubt there is really any answer to what I am wondering.  It's the debate that I think will shake out what I am hoping to gain knowledge from.

[Mark Pritchett]

I guess it is kind of like food.  I enjoy an expensive gourmet meal in a fancy restaurant and I also enjoy my Mom's home cooking (Macaroni and Cheese, turnip greens, etc.).  Different price points and settings, but both very enjoyable.

[Lou_Duran]

All things consider including reaching into my wallet to pay the gf, AGC 7, PD 3.  I suspect that the "average golfer" may even have a higher preference for AGC. 

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle:

How is the condition in winter? Do they manage to keep it f&f?

As I played the course at end of November 2008, it was plenty fast and firm. Hail fell at an alarming rate on the 1st green and 2nd tee during my first day at the resort, but quickly melted and drained away. After that, I had 3 days of sun, with little wind and highs around 60 F.

I'm told every month is a gamble weather-wise. Certainly January-March is bound to be cold, perhaps even snowed out for a day here and there. The main reason to pay the higher summer rates is the extra daylight, since anything over 36 hole is on the house. But I managed to play 36 everyday with ample lunch breaks in November thanks to a terrific pace of play each day.

[Anthony Gray]

  No way these two courses leave you feeling the same way. The isolation at PD is superior. The surroundings with the ocean is uncomparable. And the quality of of design is not matched. The only aspect that Aiken wins is price. People travel across the country to play Pac. It never gets old.

  Anthony

 

[Bill_McBride]

  No way these two courses leave you feeling the same way. The isolation at PD is superior. The surroundings with the ocean is uncomparable. And the quality of of design is not matched. The only aspect that Aiken wins is price. People travel across the country to play Pac. It never gets old.

  Anthony

 

I thought the railroad tracks were a wonderful feature.  I loved the way they started below, then at grade level, then back way below as the topography changed during those first five holes.

As Sean Arble would say, "I have a lot of time for..."  Aiken Golf Club in this case.

Distance etc notwithstanding, I'm 8-2 PD in this discussion, but boy is Aiken a lot of fun.

[Anthony Gray]

  The rairoad tracks were neet. And I liked the isolation of the first several holes also.

  Anthony