[Mike_Young]

Golf Inc. Magazine is out with another issue of the most powerful people in golf....how do they calculate this?  The golf conference stuff is so convoluted and BS loaded....people only go to these meetings now because they know their competition will be there or either they are on the expense account of a corporation or they are a speaker and have no expense....but why do we consider these management companies as the most important people in golf....I could go on and on on this But....

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/golfinc_2009fall/#/22

[John Moore II]

I would say they base the list on who can exert the most force on the industry, same as saying the most powerful people in the computer software industry or something like that. And I don't see a name on the list that I really disagree with, all those people have considerable weight in the industry and when they talk, people tend to listen. When they make changes, people tend to follow. Note however, that equipment companies are not highly represented on the list, the highest ranked equipment exec is #17.

Also, something to consider, a fair amount of this is based on how much these people spend to 'grease the wheels' so to speak. Same with 'Best Course/Top 100' rankings as far as I'm concerned.

[Bill_McBride]

Golf Inc. Magazine is out with another issue of the most powerful people in golf....how do they calculate this?  The golf conference stuff is so convoluted and BS loaded....people only go to these meetings now because they know their competition will be there or either they are on the expense account of a corporation or they are a speaker and have no expense....but why do we consider these management companies as the most important people in golf....I could go on and on on this But....

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/cypress/golfinc_2009fall/#/22

A developer with both money and vision?

[Kalen Braley]

I was schocked to learn that both Bill McBride and Anthony Gray were not on the list!!   

[Mike_Young]

John,
IMHO.....17000 golf course make up golf in the US..how many have management companies running them?  These guys have put a corporate spin on a mom and pop business and used Wall St money to overbuild by showing the investment bankers 20% or more IRR....my local reataurants don't listen to the president of Chili's or Carraba's.....
Same goes for the NGCOA...start out to help the mom and pop...next thing you know they are catering to the large management compnaies..why?  because these assoiations reliy on dues and sponsors.....so you ask..is the association there for the assoc executives and the furthering of the association or is it there for the members? 
These management companies have o secrets......many just profess to keep the loss at a minimum....and it is rare you see the maintenance improve ( there are exceptions)
The most important people in golf are the consumers....
BUT the main reason we have "The most important people in golf" article is to fill space in a magazine.....

[Tim Bert]

I was schocked to learn that both Bill McBride and Anthony Gray were not on the list!!    

Comment removed

[Jim_Kennedy]

John,
IMHO.....17000 golf course make up golf in the US..how many have management companies running them?  These guys have put a corporate spin on a mom and pop business and used Wall St money to overbuild by showing the investment bankers 20% or more IRR....my local reataurants don't listen to the president of Chili's or Carraba's.....
Same goes for the NGCOA...start out to help the mom and pop...next thing you know they are catering to the large management compnaies..why?  because these assoiations reliy on dues and sponsors.....so you ask..is the association there for the assoc executives and the furthering of the association or is it there for the members? 
These management companies have o secrets......many just profess to keep the loss at a minimum....and it is rare you see the maintenance improve ( there are exceptions)
The most important people in golf are the consumers....
BUT the main reason we have "The most important people in golf" article is to fill space in a magazine.....

Bravo

[Jim_Kennedy]

.........and being a guy helps.

[John Moore II]

John,
IMHO.....17000 golf course make up golf in the US..how many have management companies running them?  These guys have put a corporate spin on a mom and pop business and used Wall St money to overbuild by showing the investment bankers 20% or more IRR....my local reataurants don't listen to the president of Chili's or Carraba's.....
Same goes for the NGCOA...start out to help the mom and pop...next thing you know they are catering to the large management compnaies..why?  because these assoiations reliy on dues and sponsors.....so you ask..is the association there for the assoc executives and the furthering of the association or is it there for the members? 
These management companies have o secrets......many just profess to keep the loss at a minimum....and it is rare you see the maintenance improve ( there are exceptions)
The most important people in golf are the consumers....
BUT the main reason we have "The most important people in golf" article is to fill space in a magazine.....

Mike I don't disagree with you. Thats why I put my last statement in the post. I think a great deal of this has to do with how much ad money these people spend and that sort of thing. You're correct, most of these people do nothing directly for the small course. But in another sense, how much money and business does Pinehurst Resort bring to the Sandhills? A lot, for sure. And that money is not only spent at the Resort. Its also spent at the other courses in the area. In that way, Pinehurst has both a direct and indirect affect on money and income in the Sandhills. I think its the same in many places.

This list is meant to show which people exert the most influence on the industry as a whole, and its certainly top heavy, but so is any list.

And again, can't say it enough, these lists are all populated by those whose put in the most money to grease the wheels.

[jeffwarne]

John,
IMHO.....17000 golf course make up golf in the US..how many have management companies running them?  These guys have put a corporate spin on a mom and pop business and used Wall St money to overbuild by showing the investment bankers 20% or more IRR....my local reataurants don't listen to the president of Chili's or Carraba's.....
Same goes for the NGCOA...start out to help the mom and pop...next thing you know they are catering to the large management compnaies..why?  because these assoiations reliy on dues and sponsors.....so you ask..is the association there for the assoc executives and the furthering of the association or is it there for the members? 
These management companies have o secrets......many just profess to keep the loss at a minimum....and it is rare you see the maintenance improve ( there are exceptions)
The most important people in golf are the consumers....
BUT the main reason we have "The most important people in golf" article is to fill space in a magazine.....

Mike I don't disagree with you. Thats why I put my last statement in the post. I think a great deal of this has to do with how much ad money these people spend and that sort of thing. You're correct, most of these people do nothing directly for the small course. But in another sense, how much money and business does Pinehurst Resort bring to the Sandhills? A lot, for sure. And that money is not only spent at the Resort. Its also spent at the other courses in the area. In that way, Pinehurst has both a direct and indirect affect on money and income in the Sandhills. I think its the same in many places.

This list is meant to show which people exert the most influence on the industry as a whole, and its certainly top heavy, but so is any list.

And again, can't say it enough, these lists are all populated by those whose put in the most money to grease the wheels.

a list that doesn't include Mike Keiser but includes a bunch of suits that manage multiple (mostly) irrelevent courses, isn't much of a list

[John Moore II]

Jeff-Mike Keiser probably didn't pay them enough money to get on the list.

[Mike_Young]

I think another determining factor is how long you have been attending or supporting the golf Inc conference.....

It makes me recall a good friend I once worked with...he became the National Sales Mgr for a golf car company and got involved with the NGCOA...he started a program that gave a $25-$50 rebate for each cart that an owner purchased..plus they paid the NGCOA to be a sponsor...but all it did was make the other golf car companies reduce their price to whatever it took to compete....They gave him the "Golden Eagle" award or whatever for service to the NGCOA....pictures all over the magazine....constant travel and sponosrship to the multicourse owners......of course the golf car company was sending the owners around $350,000 annually so that helped....I think it hurt him eventually.....

But you will never convince me one of the management company suits is one of the most important people in golf....and that is not to say these are not bright, smart, nice, likable guys.....

[Mike Nuzzo]

Mike,
Are you saying there shouldn't be a list or that there should be different people on it?


The big speakers are who bring the most attendees to the conferences.
How many people would come if I were the keynote speaker?
Although they would learn a lot more about designing and building a practical golf course.

Architecture is almost complete ignored.

[Mike_Young]

Mike,
Are you saying there shouldn't be a list or that there should be different people on it?
I see no need for a list.....it is a subjective product written by a specific publication and nothing more....


The big speakers are who bring the most attendees to the conferences.
That may apply to professional golfer speakers but not others IMHO....the only people that benefit from these conferences are the people that produce the conference.....no one else....
How many people would come if I were the keynote speaker?
I don't know Mike....but I don't think it would be less than if it were The head of Troon or some other management company....
Although they would learn a lot more about designing and building a practical golf course.
True...but the majority of the attendees are vendors and their representatives who are on someone else's dollar and just want to play golf, attend another conference and be home by the weekend....

Architecture is almost complete ignored.
But we have known that.... ......these shows are there to sell exhibits, and show passes....when you do so you are paying for the promotion of the key speaker no matter haow you phrase it....
As you can see I am very cynical re these conferences.....it is a total abuse of the major vendors.....and they can't really say anything..

[Scott Warren]

So what, aside from what he owns, does Mike Keiser have such great control or influence over that his omission is so insulting?

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

I think they determine who's on the list by trying to decide who would be the most pissed off by not being on it, and rank them by how much it might affect the editors' future in the golf business to piss off each individual.

[Lou_Duran]

Without defining "influential", I would be curious to learn from those who post here and are in the industry, who they think are the top five or 10 most influential people in golf.  Wouldn't Woods, Nickalus, Palmer, and Fazio be on everyone's list?

[Mike_Young]

Mike:

I think they determine who's on the list by trying to decide who would be the most pissed off by not being on it, and rank them by how much it might affect the editors' future in the golf business to piss off each individual.

Tom,
I wish I could have said it that way....your such a wordsmith....
The other thing was I don't know how many of the names ( and there are a few exceptions) have their own money at risk in golf ventures...and that is another reason why Mike Keiser should be on that list....

[Mike_Young]

Lou,
If I had to try and decide I would base it on who could affect the game either positively or negatively the most...
so I would say...
Tiger Woods-  obvious
Jack Nicklaus- obvious
John Daly- whether I agree with him or not...he has a huge following and many many golfers listen to him
USGA Equipment committee- of course that is more than one person
Any indvidual course owner that has his own money at risk and has to make a profit without subsidies-  I know that is a lot of people but pick one....

I don't see where any architects association executives , equipment company executives or management companies make that much difference...JMO

[Jud_T]

Has Arnold done anything influential in the past 25 years? aside from opening up some commercial endorsement avenues on a riding mower and phoning in some very mediocre golf course designs?   

[Mike_Young]

Has Arnold done anything influential in the past 25 years? aside from opening up some commercial endorsement avenues on a riding mower and phoning in some very mediocre golf course designs?   

Jud, I understand your point but the public loves Arnold P and therefore he has tremendous influence IMHO....

[Eric Smith]

Has Arnold done anything influential in the past 25 years? aside from opening up some commercial endorsement avenues on a riding mower and phoning in some very mediocre golf course designs?   

www.orlandohealth.com/arnoldpalmerhospital/index.aspx

pretty influential

[Kalen Braley]

Mike,

I think you are on the right course there.  Even take for example Justin Timberlake.  He hosts a PGA Tour event, he owns and re-did his own course, he's very visible in the public eye, usuallys get a lot of camera time in the Celeb/Pro Ams, etc.

Like it or not, even he likely has a much bigger influence on the game than most of the guys on that list as well.

[Jud_T]

Eric,

what's that got to do with golf? We all know Arnie's a great guy who is very charitable.  And he was hugely influential in the early 60's in growing the popularity of the game, much as Tiger is today, but that was before most of the people on this board were born...

[Scott Warren]

Lou,
If I had to try and decide I would base it on who could affect the game either positively or negatively the most...
so I would say...
Tiger Woods-  obvious
Jack Nicklaus- obvious
John Daly- whether I agree with him or not...he has a huge following and many many golfers listen to him
USGA Equipment committee- of course that is more than one person
Any indvidual course owner that has his own money at risk and has to make a profit without subsidies-  I know that is a lot of people but pick one....

I don't see where any architects association executives , equipment company executives or management companies make that much difference...JMO

Mike,

You don't think Wally Uihlein is more powerful than the USGA equipment committee?

Also, I don't see how being exposed to financial risk has any link to your power?

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