[Jud_T]

Tom,

If duty calls and you want to switch to non-resident status at C.D. I'll gladly take your spot! And I promise to get at least 25 rounds in a year!   

[Padraig Dooley]

Martin Hawtree doesn't play at all.

The real question, Jaime, is if you don't understand how 70 year old Mrs. Jones plays the game, how can you design a golf course? It's easy enough to see how a golf hole could be played hitting perfect golf shots!!!

 

[Mike_Young]

I think it is important that the architect understand the game completely and how different people may choose to play.....and playing is probably the preferred way to obtain this understanding......but maybe some find it in another manner.....but I have seen some courses where it was obvious the architect did not play golf....

[Tom_Doak]

I did not say so before, but I would find it hard to take seriously an architect who doesn't play golf at all.

It seems to me that the most essential thing to being an architect is to understand why people find golf to be fun.  And if you don't find it fun enough to want to play the game yourself, then what can you bring to the table?

[john_stiles]

And if you don't find it fun enough to want to play the game yourself, then what can you bring to the table?

If you don't find golf fun enough to play,  it must be a very dull, yet difficult job, to design 18 holes.  I cannot imagine designing a course under such circumstances.

[Jim Nugent]

I believe Raynor did play, he just wasn't very good.

Didn't I read somewhere that Raynor never played at all until after he had built his 4th course?

Can anyone clear this up?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Martin Hawtree doesn't play at all.

The real question, Jaime, is if you don't understand how 70 year old Mrs. Jones plays the game, how can you design a golf course? It's easy enough to see how a golf hole could be played hitting perfect golf shots!!!

 

This is an unfair comment Padraig - He DID play... There is a difference... Plus he has an encyclopedic knowledge of the theories and philosophies of some of the old designers which is equally important...

[Adrian_Stiff]

Ally I was under the impression Martin has never played golf, perhaps it is a myth.
I also think quite a lot of architects did but now dont.

[Padraig Dooley]

Martin Hawtree doesn't play at all.

The real question, Jaime, is if you don't understand how 70 year old Mrs. Jones plays the game, how can you design a golf course? It's easy enough to see how a golf hole could be played hitting perfect golf shots!!!

 

This is an unfair comment Padraig - He DID play... There is a difference... Plus he has an encyclopedic knowledge of the theories and philosophies of some of the old designers which is equally important...

To be honest Ally, I wasn't trying to be unfair to Martin Hawtree, just stated that he doesn't play and am very aware of his extensive knowledge. We are working with him here in Cork and would take him over the vast majority of professional player architects anyday of the week.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Martin Hawtree doesn't play at all.

The real question, Jaime, is if you don't understand how 70 year old Mrs. Jones plays the game, how can you design a golf course? It's easy enough to see how a golf hole could be played hitting perfect golf shots!!!

 

This is an unfair comment Padraig - He DID play... There is a difference... Plus he has an encyclopedic knowledge of the theories and philosophies of some of the old designers which is equally important...

To be honest Ally, I wasn't trying to be unfair to Martin Hawtree, just stated that he doesn't play and am very aware of his extensive knowledge. We are working with him here in Cork and would take him over the vast majority of professional player architects anyday of the week.

I know that Padraig - I just think we shouldn't be using names in this thread because it does effect the way people think of that person... Martin is lucky / talented enough to have an extensive portfolio of work that talks for itself...

But if someone found out that I didn't play (I do), then I could see that as another hurdle to get over on the way to finding work...

[Jud_T]

This brings up a related, perhaps interesting topic...What about great golfers and their designs? Can you be too good of a player for your own good as a GCA?  Do the top players have a hard time designing fun, interesting courses for the average 15 handicapper? We know they can't stand blind shots or excessive rub of the green.  I know some of this type of debate went on during the Sebonack process.  Seems to me Ben Crenshaw is the only top PGA pro who is revered here for his GCA, and maybe that's because he has Bill Coore at his side to temper some of his impulses as a great player.  Any thoughts?

[Paul_Turner]

If an architect doesn't play then design seems to become some kind of abstract thought experiment.

If an architect doesn't play at all then perhaps it's important that he/she regularly watches others golfers, with a variety of skills, play the game.

After a fine old hole has been redesigned, I've often wondered whether the architect even bothered to watch the original hole being played.

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