Defeating, or Freezing distance

[Jeremy Glenn. (Guest)]

Your analogy is flawed

Thanks for repeatedly pointing to me the errors of my ways...  I beg to differ, but what the hey, whatever floats your boat.

Anyway, here's another analogy.

Say you have to twin golfers, Joe and Bob, equal in every way and all aspects of the game but for the fact the Joe hits it 275 whereas Bob hits it 250.

So if I understand correctly, you want to put a cross bunker at 250, forcing Joe to stay back and negating his superior abililty?

And you say it takes no skill in hitting a ball 350 yards?

Let's see you do it.  And when/if you do, Godbless my friend.  You deserve your birdie.

____

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with rolling the ball back.  It's an idea who's time has come.  But cross-bunkers only "punish" the long hitters.  You think that's fair?

[Gary Smith (Guest)]

Jeremy,

I agree with what you are saying about a cross bunker unfairly penalizing the longer hitter in your example "Joe."

Please give me your opinion on this. If there was no cross bunker involved, but the landing areas were dramatically pinched in at the 275 mark (wider at the 250 mark) wouldn't "Joe" be in a situation of being penalized again?

Why should a longer hitter be required to also be a STRAIGHTER hitter? I've been told on this thread that this is a fundamental principle of golf architecture to keep the result "fair", but I'm not satisfied with that answer. I have been on numerous courses where the fairways do not taper in the farther one gets off the tee. I say let the shorter man overcome his length disadvantage in other ways by superior short game, etc.

[Wayne Freedman]

If you begin changing courses to reflect technology,
you open a can of worms.

Standardize the ball and clubs for world-class competition. Only the manufacturers will complain. And sadly, the manufacturers will prevent this from happening.

Look to baseball for the analogy. Some years, fans argue about the 'live' ball. Compared with the differences between respective golf balls, the baseball hasn't changed nearly as much.

Leave the courses alone.

[Jeremy Glenn. (Guest)]

Gary,

"Pinching in", I feel, is always better than completely cutting off (with cross-bunkers).  At least in the first case, long hitters still have an option.

However, neither of these design features would be a philosophy I would follow for the sake of making it more difficult for long hitters.  I would never "cut off" (forced layup) unless the land dictated it, and if so I wouldn't have a problem with it, nor would I necessarily try to avoid it.  On the other hand, for variety, I would occasionally "pinch" (in the same vein that I would also "fan out") a landing area when the land doesn't feature anything to follow.

Put it this way.  Standing on the tee, a golfer is faced with a number of "doors", each door being an option.  I like to see as many doors as possible, and I like them to be wide open, or even slightly ajar.  But I hate a door that's closed, locked and bolted.  You might as well brick it over.

Cross bunkers are just big fat dead-bolts.  

[Mike O'Neill]

Jeremy,

The occasional "Hell's Half Acre" cannot be all bad.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeremy,

Joe's superior skill is not negated because he can hit a
3-wood, 2 or 3-iron far more accurately than Bob, hence he is better able to position his tee shot in the ideal location than Bob, and, if the wind conditions are right he can take the risk/ reward of carrying the cross bunker.

Pine Valley, NGLA and GCGC don't seem to have suffered architectually by the existence of cross bunkers.

Super Balls have been manufactured for years, and declared illegal by the USGA.  It is only a matter of time before that technology results in a legal ball that will perform in a similar manner.  Married with technologically improved drivers,
350-400 yard drives will no longer be rare.

Now that one eye has been fixed as of four weeks ago,
the stitches finally out of my back as of two weeks ago,
and my thalium stress test normal as of two weeks ago,
I intend to get back into PLAYING golf, which I haven't been able to do on a serious basis since July 5, 2001, and take dead aim on your 350 challenge, assisted of course, by the latest in balls and equipment.

When guys have been starting to hit the 666-670 yard 16th green at Pine Tree in TWO, something is awry.  
Imagine if you will, that someone crushes a drive 370 yards,
now that's impressive, but now, they have to hit a 300 yard
3-wood off the fairway to reach the green, and they do it.
Tell me, ten, twenty, thirty or forty years ago, if you ever heard of an accomplishment like that.  

Now Plainfield has a few, neat cross bunkers on their par 5's, but you say you don't agree with Donald Ross's theory on this issue.  Should they take them out, to cease penalizing the better player, as you claim ?

Robert Walker,

No, but we might be getting closer.