[Tom_Doak]

I would say that Common Ground is a minimalist course on a pretty dull piece of ground with little in the way of interesting vegetation, etc.  It's not going to make a top 100 list but it works very well for what it was supposed to be.

If you just think back to what was built before 1928, 95% of those courses were minimalist, because they didn't have the power to do anything else.  And there are a lot of great courses from that era, most of which were not built on spectacular property at all -- just nice, gently rolling ground.  Sean, everything that Harry Colt ever built was minimalist, are you saying his work would be trashed today?

Trying to take minimalism to a dead flat site is a tougher challenge -- although Garden City and Kingston Heath are two examples of very flat properties that produced pretty good golf.

[Sean_A]

I would say that Common Ground is a minimalist course on a pretty dull piece of ground with little in the way of interesting vegetation, etc.  It's not going to make a top 100 list but it works very well for what it was supposed to be.

If you just think back to what was built before 1928, 95% of those courses were minimalist, because they didn't have the power to do anything else.  And there are a lot of great courses from that era, most of which were not built on spectacular property at all -- just nice, gently rolling ground.  Sean, everything that Harry Colt ever built was minimalist, are you saying his work would be trashed today?

Trying to take minimalism to a dead flat site is a tougher challenge -- although Garden City and Kingston Heath are two examples of very flat properties that produced pretty good golf.

Tom

I don't buy that Colt was a minimalist.  That guy shifted a lot of dirt around many of greens which he did for effect, not because he had to.  I truly think that Colt was the first guy to really do this sort of thing in a real sense in that he built a lot of courses. 

You make my point with Kingston Heath and bunkering being the difference with a flat minimalist site.  KH seems to break the mold and be accepted as great while many other minimalist flat courses don't get the accolades.  I know that the bunkers at KH (Ganton and Woodhall Spa for that matter) go a long way toward its fame, but I am not quite sure what the story with GCGC is - though it too has some cool bunkering.  If you took away the bunkers of Ganton, Woodhall and KH would they be considered great?  In effect, the bunkers work a tandem role of making the game more interesting and providing eye candy.  When I look at a place like Huntercombe, which is just as strategic as Ganton and Woodhall, I see it doesn't hardly get any mention, but it did at one time.  What has changed?  The quality of the courses or the perceptions of golfers?

Ciao     

[Mac Plumart]

Is this just a simple matter of how someone interprets the term "minimalism"?

Wasn't R.T. Jones known as the first guy who made the land fit his designs?  And didn't he do this with heavy earth moving equipment?  Couldn't you make a claim that all designers before him were minamilist?

But you could also break it down further among the pre-RTJ designers.  Didn't the most early designers build on links land?  But they tried to move inland, but the grass, soil, etc just didn't work.  Then, Colt I think it was, started building in the Heathlands in England.  Perhaps by RTJ and/or other modern designers this was minimalist, but back in his day didn't this require a lot of land clearing, etc?

Once again, how do you define the term depends how you answer the question.

I throw in once again, that I believe a true minimalist will build course that limits maintenance budgets, water usage, etc in addition to moving as little dirt as possible.

[Carl Rogers]

A simple suggestion:

Let's all stop using the word "Minimalism" and substitute in its place either the word  "Contextualism" or " Regionalism".

My experince in an other design field is that when a word or term has many meanings or no agreed upon meaning its ceases to convey anything very useful.

[Tom_Doak]

Carl:

You could extend that argument to just say that nobody should talk about golf architecture in general terms, because it is confusing to most.  Unfortunately, sometimes that's the goal.

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