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Kyle Henderson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #100 on: November 24, 2009, 01:26:22 AM »
The 16th hole of the North Berwick West Links is comprised of 379 action-packed yards. The tee shot is played over a stone wall to a slender fairway.


From the medal tees, a carry of 215 yards is required to clear this burn. Severe winds could complicate this seemingly simple challenge.The green up ahead is oriented from short/right to long/left with respect to the central line of play


With a back/left pin placement, the optimal approach angle is clearly well right of this position. The humps and hollows found left of the green offer a plentiful supply of potential recovery shot options.


This view from the right/front of the green depicts a mammoth swale that separates the front and rear portions of the green and the testing slopes that fall away from the green’s right edge.


Even when standing on the green, it is difficult to see the entire putting surface. Note the diminutive appearance of the green’s rear shelf from this perspective.


This right side view of the green lends a better sense of scale (scroll right to see pin).


A last look over the world’s wackiest (?) green back towards the 16th tee.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2009, 01:31:21 AM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Rob Rigg

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #101 on: November 24, 2009, 02:38:37 AM »
Is that a Biarritz squared?

The 16th looks like an incredibly fun hole - what a blast. The green is out of control - an archi would be taken out back for building something that like these days - fantastic stuff!

James Boon

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (15th Hole Posted)
« Reply #102 on: November 24, 2009, 04:06:37 AM »
I'm shocked that no one has an ace story from the 15th!!!

Thats because they would be frustrated at not seeing it go into the hole  ;D

My only suprise when I played NB (and looked across at the Redan from the 4th tee) was that after all the reading up I had done, I was suprised I couldn't see the green as its behind the mounds 50 yards or so short of the green.

My story is similar to Scott's as I was playing with my brother and a friend of his (both pros) and I was telling them all about the 15th and how you are supposed to play it before we even got to the tee. When we got there my brothers mate just hit a really high mid iron straight at the green, my brother a gentle draw and me a low draw with a 4 iron that looked like it just cleared the mounds short. When we cleared the mounds short, we could look across at the green to see that we were all sitting about 15ft past the hole on the edge of the green, from where we all 2 putted for par. I would have loved to have seen my ball running up and down the humps and hollows, but after a par on 13, another on 15 was very pleasing!

And I love the 16th as well. Mad, mad green!  ;)

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Kevin Pallier

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #103 on: November 24, 2009, 05:38:17 AM »
Cheers Kyle

I hit it long and couldn't get up and down for Par. I must be the only nufty on here  ;D

Then you walk to 16 and the choices you have on the approach are immeasureable  ;)

Scott Warren

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #104 on: November 24, 2009, 05:55:27 AM »
When we cleared the mounds short, we could look across at the green to see that we were all sitting about 15ft past the hole

Kathleen hit a 3-wood off the tee that somehow threaded its way through all those bunkers and scuttled onto the green, winding up about 15 feet away.  She two putted for a comfortable par.  I would love to see her try that again!

I hit a solid high 6-iron just onto the front right of the green and it checked and trickled on down to ..........15' from the hole.

I hit the draw I was planning with my 5i, landed it front right and wandered up to find my ball 15ft below the back/centre pin. Just missed the birdie.

Strange...

Sean_A

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (15th Hole Posted)
« Reply #105 on: November 24, 2009, 06:09:03 AM »
Am I the only one who has played it twice, made two 4s, and am still happy?? How did all of the rest of you walk off with easy pars!! It is still the best on the redans I have seen.

Greg


Not to worry.  Last time there I pulled that 6 iron into the cavernous front left bunker and eventually made a double.   ;D

The only time I ever hit the green was my first go, but I have never failed to make par - even from two goes in the left bunker. 

I did see a guy with a fried egg in the longest right bunker attempt to hit a skuller off the wall and back onto the green.  He didn't quite pull it off, but it was a good attempt from which he could have made par.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #106 on: November 24, 2009, 08:53:39 AM »
When we cleared the mounds short, we could look across at the green to see that we were all sitting about 15ft past the hole

Kathleen hit a 3-wood off the tee that somehow threaded its way through all those bunkers and scuttled onto the green, winding up about 15 feet away.  She two putted for a comfortable par.  I would love to see her try that again!

I hit a solid high 6-iron just onto the front right of the green and it checked and trickled on down to ..........15' from the hole.

I hit the draw I was planning with my 5i, landed it front right and wandered up to find my ball 15ft below the back/centre pin. Just missed the birdie.

Strange...

Maybe it's a "gathering" or "collecting" thing, and the pin is in the middle of the green.

Actually, mine might have been 16'.   ;D

Kalen Braley

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #107 on: November 24, 2009, 10:57:52 AM »
This has got to be one of my all-time fave greens based on the pictures I've seen of it.

To all the archies on the board...have you ever seriously considered building a green as severe as this?  I think it'd be beyond awesome to do so.  If not is it fear of a high stimp or just the owner not being on board with it??

Sean_A

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #108 on: November 24, 2009, 11:38:08 AM »
Yes, the 16th is one of those holes that everybody talks about, but they focus on the green.  Another aspect is the oob right.  To get a straight up the gut approach (just about the only way to hold the green unless you hit the ball mile) one needs to get close to the oob. Its a great strategic use of this normally penal like feature.  Of course, in the old days and on the odd day with a good head wind, the water was very much a feature of the hole.  I can recall on my first visit having to decide if I could carry that water.  Sometimes technology helps holes (especially short 4s) and sometimes it hurts holes.  In this case, the hole has been compromised a bit as I think this was originally par 5 - which makes much more sense when we talk about the rgeen.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #109 on: November 24, 2009, 11:50:37 AM »
The first time I played North Berwick, I hit a decent drive on #16 but shoved my approach a little from the left angle and the ball wound up on closely mown turf to the right of the green.  The pin was at the rear of the front plateau.   I completely misjudged the effect of the slope into the swale and the ball suddenly darted down in there, much to my horror!   :o

I managed to two putt from down there and was relieved to get a bogey.

After we putted out, our caddy, a great guy named John Letters who I haven't seen since, told me that putts from one plateau to the other, through the swale, should be played as if straight although the various slopes will cause some gyrations on the way!  We tried a few and this seemed to be a pretty safe rule to follow.

Unfortunately I Have never been on that green in regulation  ::)  or had to putt from one plateau to the other, so haven't been able to test this in real playing of the hole.

Kyle Henderson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2009, 01:32:45 PM »

After we putted out, our caddy, a great guy named John Letters who I haven't seen since, told me that putts from one plateau to the other, through the swale, should be played as if straight although the various slopes will cause some gyrations on the way!  We tried a few and this seemed to be a pretty safe rule to follow.


I tried this putt a couple of times in each direction. The putts do indeed genereally roll pretty straight in terms of the net vector after they emerge from the swale, though there are some hiccups to watch out for on the seaward side. Also, give the putt plenty of pace, for the upslopes really seem to grab the ball.

The most important things to keep in mind when playing the 16th are to wear a large grin and to make sure you're well ahead of the next group so as to allow for some recreational putting before moving on to the 17th.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (16th Hole Posted)
« Reply #111 on: November 24, 2009, 07:38:16 PM »
To see this green in person for the first time is one of the most amazing things I have ever seen in golf. You could look at this from all of the angles and still question how to play all of the shots required to the various pin positions. On problem with always playing each course once on a trip is not being able to play holes like these over and over. Great stuff Kyle!

Greg

Kyle Henderson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (17th Hole Posted)
« Reply #112 on: November 25, 2009, 01:41:47 AM »

The 17th hole was one of which I had heard very little prior to my visit. It measures in at 428 yards in length, climbing steadily over lumpy land. The main objective from the tee is to avoid the right-hand boundary.


The fairway is narrowed by mounds set ~260 yards from the medal tees. A central bunker (not visible) lies just beyond this strait. On the horizon, the red 17th flag is seen to the right of Bass Rock while the white 1st flag is just left of it.


The approach plays at least 1 extra club uphill to a hidden green.


A miss short of the putting surface is likely to find this sandy moat.


Once on the green, it is hard not to look back and reminisce before putting out.


Looking over the green back to the tees, one can see the slope at the front of the green running towards the back. The putting surface is not closely defended by bunkers, as getting on top of the plateau is challenge enough.

"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (17th Hole Posted)
« Reply #113 on: November 25, 2009, 10:29:30 AM »
Kyle:

Great pictures!

How wide is the moat shaped bunker on 17? It looks like it only about 4 feet wide.

I wonder if this is where Colt got the idea from? He placed a long bunker similar to this on the par 3 14th at Rosapenna. He also put one on the left side of a par 5 of one of his heathland course in England (I can't remember the name of the course; it's pictured in the Creating Classics book on Colt).

Dónal.

Kyle Henderson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #114 on: November 26, 2009, 02:31:00 AM »
At 278 yards ( par “4”), the 18th hole plays from an elevated tee, bringing the green well within reach for athletic players willing to risk catastrophe. Anything that veers right invites a stroke and distance penalty along with damage claims in the car park (scroll right to see the vulnerable horseless carriages). Aside from the boundary and barring inclement weather, the principle obstacles to holing out in 4 shots or less are the slopes around the green.


Conservative strategies involve laying back to comfortable approach yardages, but one is unlikely to discover a flat lie anywhere between the tee and green. Some might also consider hitting driver more to the left, in the direction of the first tee, when the playing corridor is clear, leaving a (hopefully) simple pitch onto the green.


Unlike the final green of The Old Course, this putting surface is not flush with the boundary line on the right and rear. Rather, a slope runs contiguously with right side of the green to draw loose approaches down and away from the pin.


At the end of a satisfying two-week, two-dozen golf course sojourn, I savored my last afternoon on the Isle basking in the glorious sunshine with sand between my toes. While I certainly wish I had the good fortune to venture beyond North America at an earlier age, I could hardly have asked for better weather, superior playing grounds or finer company  during this superlative maiden voyage.

Thank you to all who made this trip possible and to all that have participated in these cyber-memoirs.


« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 03:54:39 AM by Kyle Henderson »
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (17th Hole Posted)
« Reply #115 on: November 26, 2009, 02:32:51 AM »
Kyle:

Great pictures!

How wide is the moat shaped bunker on 17? It looks like it only about 4 feet wide.

I wonder if this is where Colt got the idea from? He placed a long bunker similar to this on the par 3 14th at Rosapenna. He also put one on the left side of a par 5 of one of his heathland course in England (I can't remember the name of the course; it's pictured in the Creating Classics book on Colt).

Dónal.

4 feet is a decent guess for width, give or take a few inches.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Alister Matheson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #116 on: November 26, 2009, 03:00:39 AM »
Kyle ,
         What a course to end your tour on i managed to play North Berwick for the 1st time this year also and was very impressed with
         quality of surfaces which are maintained to a very high standard.

         The layout imo oozes class stinks of history and leaves you with an urge to get staight back out and play it again.

         Did you have a pop at the greenon 18 ? surley a must without a card in your hand.

   Cheers Ally
Cruden Bay Links Maintenance Blog

http://crudenbaylinks.blogspot.com/

Kyle Henderson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #117 on: November 26, 2009, 01:03:43 PM »
Kyle ,
         What a course to end your tour on i managed to play North Berwick for the 1st time this year also and was very impressed with
         quality of surfaces which are maintained to a very high standard.

         The layout imo oozes class stinks of history and leaves you with an urge to get staight back out and play it again.

         Did you have a pop at the greenon 18 ? surley a must without a card in your hand.

   Cheers Ally

I inexplicable lost all semblence of a driving game that day, so I hit 3-iron and then wedge. Two outts for par.

I can't believe you only just played the West Links this year!!!
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Mike Benham

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #118 on: November 26, 2009, 01:07:09 PM »

One of Bill McBride's favorite photos:

"... and I liked the guy ..."

Bill_McBride

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #119 on: November 26, 2009, 01:25:20 PM »

One of Bill McBride's favorite photos:



Thanks, Mike, great memories of North Berwick.  The "Law" (that mountain) really looms behind the home green and clubhouse!

Am I the only one who has ever hooked a tee ball on #18 into that depression directly on the backside of the subterranean professional's shop?   ??? ::)  That was a poor way to finish a round.  Unplayable lie, pitch on the green, two putt bogey feels like a double.

Greg Ohlendorf

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #120 on: November 26, 2009, 03:02:35 PM »
When I got handed the "insurance policy" at the pro shop, so that I was protected from hitting the cars aligning the 18th fairway, I wondered what was in store!!

The last time I was there, my son and I drove the green and two putted for birdies to end a great day.

Great pics Kyle!

Greg

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #121 on: November 26, 2009, 06:02:13 PM »
I played there in 206 & 7 and have never seen this,  often  referred to, "Insurance Form".  Has it gone, and if so does anyone know when?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Bryan Izatt

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #122 on: November 26, 2009, 07:06:29 PM »
Tony,

The insurance was still in use when I was there in July this year.  IIRC it was a business card-sized piece of paper that you got when you paid the fees and got the scorecard.  Even with the insurance I couldn't bring myself to hit driver.  When I was taking my clubs out of the boot of the car, I almost got hit.  Decided it was wiser to pack up and park around the corner.



Kyle Henderson

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #123 on: November 27, 2009, 11:04:48 AM »
I played there in 206 & 7 and have never seen this,  often  referred to, "Insurance Form".  Has it gone, and if so does anyone know when?

I didn't realize the course was quite that old!!!  ;D ;)
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Scott Warren

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Re: A Pictorial: North Berwick West Links!!! (18th Hole Posted)
« Reply #124 on: November 27, 2009, 11:30:20 AM »
Thank you to all who made this trip possible and to all that have participated in these cyber-memoirs.

Kyle,

I don't think I'm speaking only for myself when I saw it is we who should be thanking you.