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Gordon Irvine

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Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« on: November 06, 2009, 09:31:15 AM »
This picture shows 3 old bunkers that are short of the beginning of the fairway on the 5th at Deal I hope at some time we may get them back into play. I believe they are part of the James Braid layout of the hole.It would be interesting to hear any views on what style they should be. Deal has more recently revetted all bunkers but if ever there was a place for a more tradtional seaside look it would be for these bunkers.
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Jamie Barber

Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2009, 09:36:11 AM »
What's the motivation for bringing them back? I don't really know the course very well but would they be in play (are they not quite left of the line of play - or is that just the member's tees)?

If it's reconstuction of Braid's originals then surely it would be logical to restore the original bunker style too? And presumably non revetted are less costly to maintain?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 09:38:52 AM by Jamie Barber »
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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2009, 09:40:48 AM »
I had a thread about these earlier this year asking what they were and from memory Mark C knew the story of when they were in play. I'll see if I can dig it up.
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Gordon Irvine

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Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2009, 10:00:00 AM »
There is a proposal to lengthen the hole and that would put them back in play in fact the bunker on far right of photo would need to be carried if the left side of fairway was to be reached. Distance is not fixed as yet but I agree braid style would be geat and it might allow a change away from total revetting when it is time to refurbish others.
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Jamie Barber

Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2009, 10:06:44 AM »
So what will be the carry? Or put another way, who will they punish?

There is a hole at Prince's with two bunkers at the start of the fairway, but they are only ~200 yds off the tee so only punishing the poor guy who can't reach GIR anyway. I've often thought the pro/championship tee there needs to got back 80 yds, and the medal tee about 40 yds

BTW the bunkers you've revetted at Deal look superb IMHO. Top job!
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Gordon Irvine

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Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2009, 10:27:18 AM »
The proposed back Tee is a championship one so from that point I guess the regular play would not have to worry about them . Plus the proposed Tee is much further left that the present Tee of the day.Deal has many old Tees and Bunkers that date back to earlier times. Last year I found an old Tee on the 17th which we brought back into play which is believed to be from the Braid layout.
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Scott Warren

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Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2009, 10:31:50 AM »
Gordon, is there any consideration of amending the greenside bunkering on #9? IMO that is the greatest weakness of the whole course.

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Jamie Barber

Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2009, 10:47:54 AM »
I think it's very impressive that RCPGC continue to try and improve the course. Personally I don't like all the changes (e.g. tees on the sea wall which I think look too artificial) but you cannot fault the desire to make the course the best it can be, nor Gordon's work which is A1
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Gordon Irvine

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Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 11:14:30 AM »
Yes is the answer on the 9th we are currently improving the turf on the left of the green as I would like to widen the green taking it more towards the left hand bunkers.

I will post a pic of the new 9th Seawall Tee
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Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2009, 11:20:59 AM »
Quote from: Gordon Irvine on November 06, 2009, 11:14:30 AM
Yes is the answer on the 9th we are currently improving the turf on the left of the green as I would like to widen the green taking it more towards the left hand bunkers.

I will post a pic of the new 9th Seawall Tee

Will the sea wall tee change the angle of play at all?

As it stands, your reward for carrying the fairway trap is a second across two greenside traps, but if you hit a safe tee shot out to the right there is nothing at all to worry about, and your reward is the A1 line in.

I love the drive, I just think perhaps those who take on the bunker deserve some kind of reward. If the greenside bunkering were reversed, with the current front right trap removed, it would be a much better hole.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 11:29:25 AM by Scott Warren »
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Gordon Irvine

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Re: New 7th seawall Tee
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2009, 11:27:24 AM »
New Tee on 7th
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Gordon Irvine

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Re: 7thTee Shot
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2009, 11:39:27 AM »
Seawall Tee Shot all bunkers are in view
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Jamie Barber

Re: Old bunkers on 5th Deal New
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2009, 11:41:14 AM »
The greens staff were watering it when we played the 6th at BUDA. I distinctly remember their very loud proclaimation that "it's full of f**king stones" :D I guess that captures the challenges you faced to build it :)

I know you have limited options, but I just think tees perched atop a manmade sea defence look odd. Maybe if the sea wall had been sculptured to look more like natural dunes it would have fitted better, but it doesn't fit my eye
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 11:43:42 AM by Jamie Barber »
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