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Mac Plumart

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Re: Are golf course reviews biased
« Reply #125 on: November 11, 2009, 10:53:28 AM »
Matt...

BINGO!!!  People in the know already new about the new Doak in MT.  But people looking for the reviews and/or the ratings are not always in the know...perhaps the bulk of them are not in the know at all.  Therefore, they rely on the reviews and ratings to educate themselves and get in the know.  That is why I feel that are so very important.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Are golf course reviews biased
« Reply #126 on: November 11, 2009, 11:09:08 AM »


Joel:

Press gatherings or FAM's don't always guarantee fawning reviews -- sometimes the opposite can happen.

I can remember a MWGA event at Pound Ridge in NY and the reviews were far from 100% glowing accounts.

The sheer demands of the course made it a very trying day for quite a few people and I readily admit that the Pete Dye (done by his son actually) is just a severe layout.

When you invite people to the party there's no sure bet that all will see the same thing and write uniformly about it.

No Matt--there's no GUARANTEE of positive (or as you say--fawning) reviews..but many if not most of the attendees will be predisosed to emphasize the good, and downplay the bad/mediocre...human nature being what it is. 

Also--there's a major difference between the one-day outing with lunch/drinks and a round of golf, where every attendee is responsible for their own transportation (I assume this is the case in regards to Pound Ridge) and the multi-day "Full Monty" of a FAM trip, when the host has much more skin in the game, and consequently the writers would be that much more uncomfortable slamming the entity that was so generous in regards to offering the invite in the first place.

Matt_Ward

Re: Are golf course reviews biased
« Reply #127 on: November 11, 2009, 11:46:20 AM »
Joel:

Some of the people who came to Pound Ridge were not from the area -- I can't say for certain if their transport was arranged but clearly holding such an event is not a slam dunk by any means.

Joel, I think you believe that plying people with food and drink will always mean a return of the favor with glowing accounts. I'm sure that happens -- look at what certain panelists did for Shadow Creek years ago when Digest had it among their top ten. But, I often find such events need to have a product fully capable in delivering the goods. You roll the dice whether it's one day or multi-days.


Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Are golf course reviews biased
« Reply #128 on: November 11, 2009, 12:03:32 PM »


Joel, I think you believe that plying people with food and drink will always mean a return of the favor with glowing accounts.


No Matt--that's not what I said....not always.  But oftentimes...of that there is no doubt in my mind.

And here's another concept to consider:  Often, (again--not always) the end product is pretty good before a resort destination goes the extra 10 yards and invites writers in for a 3--day FAM event.  In other words---they are proud of their product (be it justifiable or not) and want to "show it off" to those who can help influence others.

Here's an analogy: Who is more likely to throw a big Holiday soiree---the fellow who lives in a hilltop manor home, with large rooms and an expansive outdoor deck, OR---the fellow who lives in an outdated, down-at-the-heels "fixer-upper?"  Not to say the 2nd guy would NEVER throw a party, but the guy with the glitzier, ritzier home is more likely to invite his friends and neighbors over...same concept with these resort destinations----it's mostly those who have something to show off that do the inviting, not the guys who don't.

Although there are exceptions---I once spent 3-4 days in the Poconos on just such an outing, and was underwhelmed, to say the least.

Matt_Ward

Re: Are golf course reviews biased
« Reply #129 on: November 11, 2009, 07:14:08 PM »
Joel:

There's little doubt that people who want a FAM trip are looking for favorable publicity. But, there is a risk in bringing together such a group of people because there's no 100% way to guarantee predictable outcomes.

Joel, I know of a number of different facilities that are "proud of their product" but they don't sometimes realize that when they think their facility is a top 100 layout that there are plenty of others who are easily beyond what they provide. In short, many of the hosts have little overall context in understanding where their layout ultimately belongs.

Like I said the folks at Pound Ridge invited the press and the results were far from uniform and the folks at Pound Ridge are quite proud of their place and have the $$ to handle such events.

Joel, let me point out I have sometime been contacted by courses which don't have a big time budget and other top tier amenities and they asked me to come to their place if ever in the neighborhood. In a number of cases I was quite impressed. No doubt the top tier places have the $$ to put together a big time overall show. I  just think that places that seek out attention had bette realize that often times you have discerning eyes taking in all the actionand the outcomes, as your Pocono experience outlined, can be far from automatic  praise.


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