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Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2009, 08:15:39 AM »
As Mac mentioned he suggested that I make a list, I took it in the manner it was made and produced my ‘tongue in cheek’ list of my The Ten Golfing Commandments.

I am surprised by the reaction of some, however I really should not be when we consider that the fundamental part of the game is totally prostituted through the wishes and desires of a number of large lazy, selfish and inconsiderate people. They are willing to change the face of golf to suit their purposes, then attack those who point out that golf is a walking game.

If totally able bodied and you ride in a cart when playing what you call golf, then you have betrayed the principal way the game has been played for Centuries. Moan, complain, call me names do what the hell you want but that betrayal of golf is totally down to you, has nothing to do with me apart from daring to expose the great nearly unspoken secret that carting is not GOLF.

You and your fellow carters have deliberately set out to change the game, IMO to undermine its basic values and the rewards the game of golf gives the player. So don’t come up with excuses, just be man enough to admit it. If you can still face being honest call your game cartgolf or cartballing but not golf for the very fact that you ride and do not walk. 

As for my topic, I would like to answer some of the replies

Bill
“To thine own self be true”  I am trying to practice the very thing. Regrettable those who say they love the game of golf then go and hop onto a cart and ride around the course breaking with centuries of tradition of walking. Do not remember you sprouting your words of wisdom at them, but then let’s not forget I have been branded as anti American as well as my comments and opinions being described as ranting.   

Jim
“Thou shalt remember that thee are not Me” Happily, most happily, I can never match a man that by the very fact of walking (or is that riding) into a room can turn cream for the coffee sour within 50 ft of him.

Tom
Because 15,000 courses are over a certain length does not make them right, perhaps one day you will be allowed to prove your worth to golf (not that I am saying you have not). I happily live in the 21st Century with the ability of playing many links courses (when my body allows) that far outweigh some of the expensive modern rubbish that has been produced over the last 40 years. Thank God for Scotland and the rest of GB&I. As for nearsighted, I feel that would be a better claim to fame that being part of the generation that over saw the demise of great golf course design. Thank God its only opinions that are being passed around.

Tim
Alcohol would be covered by one of the sub sections under Commandment 8
As for Women, they my friend, have equal rights to men in my eyes.

David
You may well be right and if that is the cost, then so be it – could result in seeing the 3 to 3.5 hour round come back into play. That alone in some places could be a good reason to endorse the Golfing Commandments

Mac
I blame you for all this and I have not forgotten and taken into account that you ride and use artificial aids. The flames of hell shall burn around you for a day short of eternity, then I will take you out for lunch and show you how to play real mans golf, on TOC. Don’t worry we will both have to help the other around the course.

Bill
I am not on a mission to do anything re American Golf. In fact, I am more than happy you have called it American Golf as that is all the distinction I was or would be after. As for self righteous or a bit misguided, that label is more appropriate on those who wish to change the game from centuries of walking to riding. However if it is your sincere opinion, then I regret it but it will have no baring on our friendship (if indeed it still exists)

Garland
Thank you, the cheque is in the post, but can’t you do something with the orange pants, perhaps more appropriate do something to the guy who wears them. He is given American Golf a bad name over here unlike Bill who is the classic rogue model (ops or should that have been roll model).

Anthony
Stick and stones (Woods & Irons) may break my bones but colours will never hurt me (if I am wearing my shades on the course). After a few hours in the pub, I would have no problem with orange, pink etc.   

Jason
Public Enemy No1 or a Defender of the Faith is more how I may see it, whatever if it keep walking as the prime way of playing golf world wide, then call me what you want. I may be too old to play you when we may finally meet, would it be OK if I use a cart, but then it would not be a proper game of golf.

Ian
Good Call, but by walking when you play you are already have fun (laughing at the able bodied guys on the carts who think they are playing golf, he, he)

Bill Brightly
More than fair minded of you. However, why allow one swing when none should be the order of the day. Good call on the rest, but killing is more than being a traditionalist/purist and should only be reserved for drunks on carts, even that is too good for them.

David
Amen to that

Tom Mac
We have never agree upon so many points, as for #5 its requires the use of eyes, brain, body co-ordination, something we do naturally from the time we wake in the morning until we go to sleep at night – well excluding those that need to use distance aids to do their thinking for them. As for #7 that refers to Golf as a walking game vs. riding which IMHO should be called cartballing or cartgolf but is not golf in its true meaning or sense.

JC
Prove he/she does not exist and I am with you on that one

Bob
You have a good point; I just wish we did not need any
   
Orange Man
He is already at the spirits at this time in the morning

Mike
No, not redundant far from it, bloody needed and soon or the self righteous will inherited the golf courses

Will
Great big ******* cart track all over the courses, carts scattered on fairways fast wearing it out, idiots pacing distance slowing the game, no impact on how I am playing! Are you the Rip Van Winkle of the golfing world – Tom D, here is the individual who is living in the 19th Century

David M
Please to hear you can live with the rest saves me the cost of a hit man
as I don’t have time to discuss it over a 100 pages or so.

Mike W
Goes without saying

In closing, I address all those over 50 golfers who started playing in the 50’s-60’s when carts, cart tracks, distance aids, long courses etc did not blight our courses. Remember the early days and why you have played golf ever since, was it for the love of the new toys (that make life easier for the modern golfer) or was it for the fun and pleasure it gave you in walking, judging distance naturally and being able to play at least two round in a day. Those halcyon day of you, the course, of the equipment that worked with each hole and all with no outside distractions. That was golf, that is golf, why are you happily watching it change, yet content to watch nearly all the other sports you are interested in remaining relatively unchanged. This is the part I do not understand, it has nothing to do with being anti anything.  Nevertheless, while I am not a lone voice, I am aware that I am only part of small minority in today’s world of modern golf where money is more important than the game.

Melvyn

PS The Colours, if any reflect just the colours and nothing else.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 08:47:17 AM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2009, 08:57:47 AM »
I am not getting into any of the fighting at all.  To each there own and God bless you all, but I will say this...

One of the last times I played, I was paired up with a guy who was walking.  I thought of Melvyn, Rob Rigg, and all the others on this site.  In fact, I asked him if he had heard of the "Walking Golfer" website.  He said he hadn't, so I told him to check it out.

However, as I watched him play I thought to myself..."one day I'm going to do that"...so take it for what it is worth, I see the point that golf was originally a walking game.  I don't think everyone needs to walk to be called a golfer and maybe I am simply jealous of those who walk...but I have a goal of becoming a walking golfer...at least a part time walker.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2009, 09:05:34 AM »
Moses Morrow,
If you owned a range finder you'd know how far away you are from your sense of humour.  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2009, 09:09:33 AM »
These days I am very happy at 6200 - 6500 yards, but there are many who are not challenged at that length.


Bill:

I agree with you on the 6200-6500 yds courses. What I wonder is, who are these guys that are not challenged by a 6200-6500 yds course? I know of some former scratch and +1 and +2 golfers (one is a former Irish Close Champion) and they would never turn their noses up at 6200-6500 yds course. In my opinion, these "7000+ only" guys should move onto the 7000 yds course when they routinely score 4 or 5 under on a 6500 yds course. This means they should be plus handicappers.

If any 5 handicapper or above insists on playing 7000+ courses from the back tees, well I think they need to get their heads examined.

Dónal.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2009, 09:23:41 AM »
Mac

Don’t think of me when playing golf, you do not want to upset your game, however I will say that the courage you are displaying show quality and certainly deserves support. Keep the good work up and keep posting.

Melvyn

PS I note the list of books from Dónal, but some are very expensive. I have not checked recently but the one on the life of Tom Morris was selling about 18 months ago for £3,000. The well used copy I had was falling apart but still valued at £980 pre being rebound.

Jim

Don't have one but I may have hit the target without ;)
« Last Edit: November 05, 2009, 09:25:45 AM by Melvyn Hunter Morrow »

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2009, 09:42:15 AM »
PS I note the list of books from Dónal, but some are very expensive. I have not checked recently but the one on the life of Tom Morris was selling about 18 months ago for £3,000. The well used copy I had was falling apart but still valued at £980 pre being rebound.


Melyvn:

Yes, the originals would cost a fortune. That's why the the pdf versions on the archive.org website are an option. I recently got a new 2008 edition of Bernard Darwin's "The Golf Courses of the British Isles" for £0.01 on Amazon. It's better than reading it online.

Dónal.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2009, 10:42:53 AM »
the wishes and desires of a number of large lazy, selfish and inconsiderate people.

Ironic considering the poster.

I'd add you shall not misuse the name of OTM, or any other legend, to promote your golf course.

Tom...you were close. I would add "you shall not misuse the name of OTM, or any other legend, to promote your agenda on GCA."
H.P.S.

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2009, 10:53:09 AM »
Hopefully this thread spawns a thread on the Woes of the Pharisee of Golf

tlavin

Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2009, 11:04:42 AM »
The game has enough rules already without the imposition of a set of moral imperatives.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2009, 11:21:18 AM »
Ah Melvyn, you have this wonderful talent to make the perfect the enemy of the good.  I have to admit, I am relieved you're not related to other Scots:

Melvyn Hunter Fleming: "All antibiotics other than penicillin are not true medicine.  Only quacks use vancomycin."

Melvyn Hunter Watt: "Airplanes are the devil's work: they canna be powered by steam engines."

Melvyn Hunter Napier: "Curses be to the inventor of the calculator."


Please know I'd share a 'proper' round with you any time.    ;)

Jason,

You're examples are poorly analogous.

I see Melvyn as saying something analogous to

Major League Baseball commandments
You shall not use metal bats with a higher COR.
You shall not move the pitchers mound farther from home plate.
You shall not increase the distance between bases.
You shall not provide a mechanical conveyance to circle the bases.
You shall not use a pitching machine in a game.
etc.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2009, 11:21:26 AM »

Bill Brightly
More than fair minded of you. However, why allow one swing when none should be the order of the day. Good call on the rest, but killing is more than being a traditionalist/purist and should only be reserved for drunks on carts, even that is too good for them.


OK, I'll try it...

I use the one practice swing to try and groove the "swing thought of the moment"...but maybe I should just hit the ball...

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2009, 11:23:46 AM »
I could easily build a course under 6500 yards that the pros would struggle breaking par on.

All of the holes would look something like this or similar!!   ;D


David Whitmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2009, 11:33:23 AM »
These days I am very happy at 6200 - 6500 yards, but there are many who are not challenged at that length.


Bill:

I agree with you on the 6200-6500 yds courses. What I wonder is, who are these guys that are not challenged by a 6200-6500 yds course? I know of some former scratch and +1 and +2 golfers (one is a former Irish Close Champion) and they would never turn their noses up at 6200-6500 yds course. In my opinion, these "7000+ only" guys should move onto the 7000 yds course when they routinely score 4 or 5 under on a 6500 yds course. This means they should be plus handicappers.

If any 5 handicapper or above insists on playing 7000+ courses from the back tees, well I think they need to get their heads examined.

Dónal.

Donal,

It's not that a 6200-6500 yard course doesn't challenge me...every golf course has its own challenges. I prefer, however, to have length be a part of my golf challenge. If I play a 6200-6500 yard course, I will play many holes iron-wedge-putter. I prefer another challenge.

I don't understand why some people are so against longer golf courses. If you don't care for a specific length, simply play a forward tee. And in that spirit, it seems to me every golf course is under 6500 yards.

My only three commandments are take care of the golf course, play quickly, and have fun!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2009, 11:47:01 AM »
1. Thou shalt not use a putter that touches thou's torso during the swing.
2. Thou shall never hit into the group in front of you, even if they are a bunch of F%$#ing slow hackers.
3. Thou shall not wear retro loud plaid pants.
4. Thou shall not wear shorts if the temperature is below 60 degrees farenheit.
5. Unless thou is a legitimate tour player, thou shall utilize an extra light carry bag at all times.
6. Thou shall have no more than 2 bag tags from fancy courses attached to thine bag at any one time.
7. Thou shall treat all course employees, guests and members with cordiality even if thou shanked it around all day.
8. Thou shall pick up after thou is out of a hole and/or has maxed out on a given hole for handicap purposes.
9. Thou shall be ready to hit when it is thou's turn.
10. Thou shall not stride around the locker room naked for a period of more than 45 seconds.
11. Thou shall raise the funds and hire TomD to build a course under 6500 yards.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2009, 12:12:05 PM »
It seems the easiest way for Tom D to build the 6500 yd course is to buy High Pointe and shorten it.
;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jason McNamara

Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2009, 11:24:32 PM »
Jason,

You're examples are poorly analogous.


Garland, your [sic] really taking this thread seriously?

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2009, 12:02:45 AM »
David M[
Please to hear you can live with the rest saves me the cost of a hit man
as I don’t have time to discuss it over a 100 pages or so.

Sorry for the confusion Melvin, but I meant that I can live with the rest of Mr. Huntley's post, particularly part about enjoying the day.

As for your Commandments I agree with you in spirit but am less sure about your approach.  

Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2009, 12:13:30 AM »
The one and only commandment for me -

Enjoy the walk (or the ride if you so like).

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2009, 11:41:36 AM »
Donal,

It's not that a 6200-6500 yard course doesn't challenge me...every golf course has its own challenges. I prefer, however, to have length be a part of my golf challenge. If I play a 6200-6500 yard course, I will play many holes iron-wedge-putter. I prefer another challenge.

I don't understand why some people are so against longer golf courses. If you don't care for a specific length, simply play a forward tee. And in that spirit, it seems to me every golf course is under 6500 yards.

My only three commandments are take care of the golf course, play quickly, and have fun!

David:

I respect your opinion. I not against long courses as such. What I'm against is the notion that 6500 yard courses are a walkover and that the only challenge is to be had by taking on the 7000+ monsters. I believe that courses over 7000+ yards should only be played by very low handicappers. Even if you're booming your drives 300 yards on a 6500 yard course and only managing to score 5 over, that means you've got problems somewhere else in your game. That's what golf is about, exposing your weaknesses.

I don know how good or bad a golfer you are, but if your're playing an iron and wedge to many holes on a 6200-6500 course, then you must be a big hitter. It all then depends on what you score. If it's not close to level par, then you need to concentrate on your weaknesses (chipping, putting, shots from 100 yds in) and forget about the 7000 yard courses. If you're scoring well, then by all means, go for the 7000 yards course.

A 6500 yard course will have 5-6 par 4s over 400 yards and depending on it's par, it might have a couple of par 5s over 500 or 550 yards. I can think of courses like Ballybunion that are about 6600 yards and they would challenge any golfer. Ballybunion has a good mix of long and short par 3s and par 4s. I accept the two par 5s are not so long, but what I'd say to any golfer is, "tot up your score at the end and lets see how you did".

The golf course is like an examination paper. If you scoring an F on the 6500 yard course, there isn't much point aiming at the 7000 yard course.

Thou shalt not let pride influence your choice of tee to play from.

Dónal.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2009, 11:46:07 AM »
Jason,

You're examples are poorly analogous.


Garland, your [sic] really taking this thread seriously?

Thanks for catching my tyop. ;)
It seemed your post addressed serious topics, so I was only taking the cue from you.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2009, 12:39:19 PM »
Donal

  I get your point but I play with any number of players who do not struggle with distance and for whom playing a course at too short a yardage eliminates much of the strategy from the tee.  They are as likely to shoot 75-78 from 6,300 as 6,800 depending on the topography but get more enjoyment from the longer course because of the added challenge of dealing with fairway bunkering that would otherwise be out of play.  I have also played links courses where the course is more benign for players of reasonable length from further back because there is less risk of running through the fairway.
I guess my point is, it all depends on the course.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2009, 01:55:45 PM »
the point is that what % of the golfing public is too long to fully enjoy a 6500 yard course? Probably only guys who are single digit handicaps.  What percentage of the entire golfing public is that? 10% or less? nevertheless 100% of the courses built today are longer than 6500 with a large percentage over 7000. this makes golf take longer and cost more for 100% of us..and it hurts the growth of the game.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 02:05:30 PM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2009, 03:07:11 PM »

1.   You shall only Walk unless unable by act of God

4.   You shall not ride in carts (unless for medical reasons) nor build cart tracks



Mike
No, not redundant far from it, bloody needed and soon or the self righteous will inherited the golf courses



Melvyn -

My comment about redundancy is tied to "You shall only Walk" and "You shall not ride in carts".  To me, those are redundant statements ("characterized by similarity or repetition").  If the end result of those two commandments is not similar, please explain what I am missing.

As for the tag of "nor build cart tracks", perhaps that should be a separate commandment and since I haven't built any "cart tracks", then I guess I am in good graces with someone.


"... and I liked the guy ..."

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2009, 07:02:28 PM »
Tom Doak courses under 6500 yards:

- Pacific Dunes (orange, gold, green)
- Cape Kidnappers (green, red, yellow)
- Quail Crossing (blue, white, green)

I guess most of his other courses are under 6500 yards as well. So what is all the fuss about wanting to show the world what can be done under 6500 yards? Just look, it's already out there!

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Ten Golfing Commandments
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2009, 08:52:36 PM »
Uh oh - I'm headed for that fire & brimstone place ;)

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