Would C B be happy with NGLA today?

[Anthony Gray]

  Have the changes been opposite of his vision?


  Please Discuss


  Also not to beet a dead horse, but how is it different than the 1911 version?

  How will it be different for the Walker Cup than it is today?

  Thanks


 

[Bill Brightly]

I thought about that the whole round when I played there this year!

First of all, I think he would be stunned at the quality of the turfgrass. I think that would please him greatly, especially the greens.

I think he would snarl at the consistancy of the bunkers.

I think he would be pleased that the course was largely unchanged.

But I think it would break his heart to see how far good golfers can carry the ball off the tee, how players could fly by the hazards he placed. And he would be really ticked at today's aerial game

[Tom_Doak]

I think he would be amazed and dismayed to see how it plays for the best in the game now.  But that doesn't necessarily mean he would want it to be 1,000 yards longer.

[Anthony Gray]

  Bill,

   Nice post. The course is almost 100 years old which speaks of its greatness. But does it look Scotish. And is a Scotish look the look C B was looking for?

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

I think he would be amazed and dismayed to see how it plays for the best in the game now.  But that doesn't necessarily mean he would want it to be 1,000 yards longer.

  Tom,

  Thanks for the input. Do you ever consider how your work will be considered 100 years in the future?

  Anthony

[Tom MacWood]

Was CB ever happy with the NGLA?

[DMoriarty]

  Have the changes been opposite of his vision?


  Please Discuss


  Also not to beet a dead horse, but how is it different than the 1911 version?

  How will it be different for the Walker Cup than it is today?

  Thanks

I agree with Bill and Tom that he would be most dismayed with what the technology has done to the strategic fundamentals of the course, but hopefully he'd just write them off and leave things the same.

While not directly about NGLA, he might view much of what went on with golf design in this century as a regression somewhat similar to the dark ages, but he might see hope in some of the courses of the last 20 years.  

I think he would be pleased that the strategic fundamentals of the course remained intact in the golf holes.  I don't know if he would get too caught up in the difference of appearance of some of the bunkers.   He was much more about substance than aesthetics.  That being said, he did write quite a bit about emulating nature and making the hazards appear as natural as possible, so perhaps he might not be thrilled with the change in the look.

____________________________

I hope that there are detailed statistics available from the 1922 Walker Cup.  It would be interesting to compare.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I too like to think he would be happy with the course as it exists today. I agree with
Tom on his dismay at the state of techology and its impact on the game today. The genious of this and other Mac Raynor courses  is the timless nature of them. Score does not matter, shotmakeing and the thrill of the moment do.

[Kalen Braley]

Are you kidding me?

After seeing one of those drivers launch a ProV 300 yards he'd be asking..."Where can I get me one of those?  Raynor is gonna be my whipping boy now for sure!!"   

[Garland Bayley]

Are you kidding me?

After seeing one of those drivers launch a ProV 300 yards he'd be asking..."Where can I get me one of those?  Raynor is gonna be my whipping boy now for sure!!"   

Kalen,

You know Raynor didn't play golf don't you?

[Niall C]

  Bill,

   Nice post. The course is almost 100 years old which speaks of its greatness. But does it look Scotish. And is a Scotish look the look C B was looking for?

  Anthony

Anthony

Interesting question but I wonder if it is the right question. What was the "Scottish" look and how did that differentiate from the English, Irish and American look ? Also what about inland versus links ? What was MacDonald trying to achive ?

I've always had the impression that CB Mac was more about ideals than looks, and that he felt he could learn from Scottish courses (and English etc) and improve upon them by taking the best bits.

Niall

[Eric Smith]

I've always had the impression that CB Mac was more about ideals than looks, and that he felt he could learn from Scottish courses (and English etc) and improve upon them by taking the best bits.

Niall

George Bahto said as much to me nearly 6 years ago.  "Not the look, but the strategy" of the hole(s) was his primary focus.

[TEPaul]

Macdonald actually seemed remarkably unconcerned about the significant distance increases back in that first decade of the 20th century from the Haskell ball that most everyone else seemed so concerned about. He seemed to both say he didn't really think it did go all that much farther or else it really didn't matter much anyway as he thought golf was definitely hard enough for most people. He apparently wrote that in 1926-28 so he certainly had time to reflect on it. So perhaps adding distance to NGLA was never nor would've ever been his thing and considering what he recommended length-wise for Merion East (far shorter than that club wanted it) he apparently meant it. On the other hand he did push back a few greens at NGLA quite a bit (#2, #14 and #17) but presumably that was done for reasons other than to just pick up additonal distance.

[Mike Hendren]

Perhaps we should start with a broader question:   Was CB capable of happiness?

[Bradley Anderson]

I wonder how amazed he would be by the health of the turf, and by the speed of the greens. I think those two qualities would be very pleasing to him. I think he would be amazed to watch how the ball performs on those greens with the practices we have today.

There is a story I think is true about his nephew cajoling him over how the first hole was so short - I think it was the first hole - and they went out that evening and his nephew drove the green from the tee to prove his point. I love that story because it doesn't end with: "and the next day the old man went out and moved the tee back." No it ends with: "and the next day the old man removed the boy from his will." All that kind of stuff just adds to the legend of the man and the golf course.

[George_Bahto]

As the players began hitting balls beyond the original distances Macdonald thought they would when he built the course, he kept moving hazards forward, adding more hazards beyond originals ones (the PN bunker on hole 8, being a good example). He moved tees back and he moved greens forward as the players threatened his original ideas of hole strategies.

[George_Bahto]

Bradley: "and the next day the old man removed the boy from his will." All that kind of stuff just adds to the legend of the man and the golf course.

the funny part of the story is that Peter Grace had many times more money than Charlie did.   

[PThomas]

but dont you think CB would try to lengthen at least some of the holes , since people are hitting SO MUCH FARTHER vs. when he built it??

[DMoriarty]

Perhaps we should start with a broader question:   Was CB capable of happiness?

The closing paragraphs of Scotland's Gift, written when CBM was in his 70s. . . .

Finally reminiscing over the fifty-five years of my golfing experience, I am impressed with dep feeling that the most compelling force in the joy I have taken out of life from youth to three-score and ten years and has made life worth living for me and led me to contemtnment has been golf.  It is best expressed in poetry.  Here is something that was written by Edward Dyer the last half of the 16th century:

My Mind to me a Kingdom is,
such perfect joy therein I find,
That it excels all other bliss
that world affords or grows by kind;
Though much I want which most men have,
yet still my mind forbids to crave.

Content I live, this is my stay,
I seek no more than may suffice;
I press to bear no haughty sway,
look what I lack my mind supplies.
Lo thus I triumph like a King,
Content with what my mind doth bring.

Some have too much yet still do crave,
I little have and seek no more;
They are but poor though much
they have and I am rich with little store.
They poor, I rich, they beg, I give,
they lack, I leave, they pine, I live.

My wealth is health and perfect ease,
my conscience clear my chief defense;
I neither seek by bribes to please,
nor by desert to breed offense.
Thus do I live, thus will I die,
would all did so well as I.

As I dedicate this book to my grandchildren and to golfing posterity, I should like to commend them in their leisure moments to pursue the game of golf for diversion, for health, and for companionship, forever endeavoring to find the soul of golf, for possibly if they do they may discover their own souls.  

Sounds like he thought he was happy.  

But I am sure others around here know better than him.