[Alex Miller]

Hi guys,

I'm a 20 year old college student so as you can imagine I play video games once in a while. Tiger Woods PGA Tour to Mario golf, they're all fun, but I was thinking what it would be like if we could get some architects to design completely made up courses that could only be experienced through the game.

Obviously it's not very easy to translate golf courses to games (I think WGT's HD images are awesome!) and the playability is hardly ever like real life (e.g. TOC in the Tiger Woods series).

While in the past there have been attempts at original designs, the best of which being Central Park and the Scottish Highlands courses in the TW series, none are really that breathtaking nor praiseworthy from an architectural standpoint.

What are your opinions on golf games and do you think the gaming industry would ever go to real golf course architects for original courses?

-Alex

[Jud_T]

I love it!  Tom Doak on acid!!

[Alex Miller]

Exactly,

and Tom could even design a course on a boat! Thanks Jud, and maybe this is the route those architects go in this economy. 

[Jon Heise]

I love it!  Tom Doak on acid!!

I think he did Black Rock Cove...

[Michael Huber]

the greek ruins course was way too hard and therefore no fun to play. 

although it was indeed a good match play venue.

[Jim Colton]

I'm sure  a lot of you guys used to play Microsoft links golf on the pc. It still has a cult following with some remarkable user-created originals and replicas using the Arnold Palmer course designer. I haven't looked lately but they have stunning replicas of many of the top courses. Try links corner or apcd-courses or something like that.

[R.S._Barker]

I can personally attest to the accuracy of various courses for PGA 2000, Tiger Woods, Links 2003 by Microsoft and even Jack Nicklaus Golden Bear Challenge by Acclaim.

However the difference when comparing Tiger to PGA 2000 comes in to play because Tiger allowed the user to "juice" up their created player via stats building, real and fictional courses included with the game and per downloads (custom courses/libraries) became pushovers rather quickly.

The link between PGA/Tiger comes from Headgate Studios being the driving force behind PGA and then being hired on by EA Sports to upgrade their gaming engine with real swing and other PGA 2K features. The Tiger Woods course architect is a direct relative of the PGA 2K one, with the added ability to import Data for a much more accurate course recreation effort from the topographical point of view.

Links does offer the finest virtual visual golf course embodiment no doubt, and I freely admit the APCD is the most powerful course designer on the market - however the game play left many players gasping for finer management of their personal careers via complete seasonal schedules/stats and better use of in-game camera work (i.e. snap cams etc.) offered through TIGER/PGA etc.

***

My personal designs focus on recreations of real courses, namely NGLA and Portmarnock (bot A-B 9's and even the C course built in 1972ish) for PGA 2000, and I'm currently working on The original Lido Club for PGA 2000.

Cheers,

[Matt_Cohn]

Bethpage Black on WGT is fun but really hard because you can only hit your driver 225-230 on average. As someone commented, they use thousands of HD photos for each course and the bounces and everything seem pretty realistic.

I tell people that WGT is just like real golf because it's addicting, extremely frustrating, and the putting thing kind of makes you yip it every once in a while. 

[Kalen Braley]

I play this free online golf game.

There are some fun courses including a few courses that are played on Islands in the Sky as well as one thats routed thru the Egyptian Desert with pyramids and the like.  As its a Korean based game there are even a few courses that are supposed to be replicas of courses in Asia. 

http://shotonline.gamescampus.com/index.asp

[Dan_Callahan]

If you haven't played TW Golf on the Wii, you are really missing something. The Wii Motion Plus sensor is pretty damn cool, allowing you to hit draws and fades by rotating your arms through the swing. And now putting, which had been the games biggest weakness, is now its greatest strength. Incredible realistic feel.

[Chris Flamion]

I think at some point we will see digital only courses.  We are already "swinging" to hit the digital ball, so it is only a matter of time till that comes with it.

[Jud_T]

someday 3-d holographic simulation will be pretty darned good, especially in the winter up north.....

[Scott Warren]

If you haven't played TW Golf on the Wii, you are really missing something. The Wii Motion Plus sensor is pretty damn cool, allowing you to hit draws and fades by rotating your arms through the swing. And now putting, which had been the games biggest weakness, is now its greatest strength. Incredible realistic feel.

You're completely right, but all that is only half as cool as being able to re-create yourself in the game without the beer gut/wrinkles/grey hair etc etc!!

[Jay Flemma]

I'm a big fan of the Links LS series.  They had a lot of great courses!

While we are on the topic, what game was it that had Tobacco Road?

[R.S._Barker]

Tobacco Road was recreated by Rattlesnake Designs for PGA 2000

[Tim Bert]

If you haven't played TW Golf on the Wii, you are really missing something. The Wii Motion Plus sensor is pretty damn cool, allowing you to hit draws and fades by rotating your arms through the swing. And now putting, which had been the games biggest weakness, is now its greatest strength. Incredible realistic feel.

call me when it works for lefties.

[Bill Satterfield]

I've played a lot of golf video games over the years as well.  Some courses translate to video games well while others don't quite deliver what you hope for.  The courses that seem to translate well are ones with dramatic views, elevation changes, and colors.  For example, I think Wolf Creek and Pebble Beach translate to the virtual world very well while courses like St. Andrews and Winged Foot can't be fully appreciated through the virtual world

What makes the real courses so great in games is the fact that they are REAL.  You can tee it up there, see it on TV, find photos on the internet, etc.  There are a bunch of courses I've played in real life that I've also played on video games (Pebble, Bandon, Sahalee, Pasatiempo, Pumpin Ridge, Coeur d'Alene Resort, Sherwood Hills, Castle Pines, etc.) and it is really fun to enjoy both experiences.  I base 90% of my decision on whether to pay the latest edition of the Tiger Woods series on my XBOX 360 based on what courses comes with it.  Of course on the PC version, there are TONS of free course downloads (Cypress, Augusta, Shinnecock, etc.) which brings longevity to the game.

As far as hiring a real architect to design a fantasy course, my suggestion would be a bit different.  Get a real architect to submit their plans on a course that will open within the next year (Old Macdonald at Bandon would be PERFECT!) and let people enjoy it virtually before experiencing it in person.  I remember being really excited to play Bountiful Ridge in Utah the first time in real life after playing it so many times on the old Links series (the creator of that game lived in Bountiful before passing away a few years ago.).  It would be a great publicity angle for a public course to appear on a video game before you could play it in real life.  A lot of people would be anxious to see how close of a creation the virtual game would be to the real thing.  Old Macdonald would be awesome because the greens would be wild, it delivers some color contrast with the ocean and fescue, and it already can piggyback on the success of Bandon Dunes in the real world and virtual world (Bandon has appeared in the Tiger Woods series a couple of times).

[Scott Warren]

Great post, Bill.

I had no idea you could download the likes of CPC and ANGC for TW series on PC. That's awesome.

[Alex Miller]

Dammit Bill!

You are making me start to regret switching to a mac...

One thing I enjoyed was the Tiger tees in the old TW games because it stretched out the course enough to make it somewhat of a challenge with one's "juiced up" player. As for having Bandon and Old Mac in games, they should just make a Bandon resort game where u stay at the course... A combo of Grand Theft Auto and golf, obviously instead of killing people they could sample the food and do some short game stuff, but that practice area would need to be in the game for sure!

[Bill Satterfield]

Great post, Bill.

I had no idea you could download the likes of CPC and ANGC for TW series on PC. That's awesome.

You can download until your heart is content here:  http://www.coursedownloads.com/

I've downloaded Cypress Point, Augusta, Shinnecock, Baltusrol, Bethpage Black, Winged Foot, Black Rock, Kapalua Plantation, Valhalla, Spyglass, Carnoustie, Cape Kidnappers, Cherry Hills, etc.  In fact, there is one design team on there that designs each course on the PGA Tour and has an online league I believe.

ENJOY!  Just try to go to bed before 2:00 AM tonight!  

[Bill Satterfield]

Dammit Bill!

You are making me start to regret switching to a mac...

One thing I enjoyed was the Tiger tees in the old TW games because it stretched out the course enough to make it somewhat of a challenge with one's "juiced up" player. As for having Bandon and Old Mac in games, they should just make a Bandon resort game where u stay at the course... A combo of Grand Theft Auto and golf, obviously instead of killing people they could sample the food and do some short game stuff, but that practice area would need to be in the game for sure!

A Bandon Dunes Resort game would be a great add-on download option for $19.99 or something.  It would be a cross between Tiger Woods golf and The Sims.  I like your thinking!

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