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Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #100 on: September 15, 2010, 05:59:39 PM »
    I wouldn't mind seeing it fail because Donald Trump, in my humble opinion, is good for no one and for nothing.  Getting him out of the business would be a good thing.  My new favorite "The Donald" story happened last week after the semi-final match between Wozniacki and Venus.  Trump had been sitting in the Wozniacki box during the match.  Mary Joe Fernandez, in the post match interview, asked her what her connection was to Mr. Trump.  "Oh," she said.  "He called my agent and asked for a seat."  Out of the mouths of babes.  And you know full well that Donald had been stoked to tell his followers that he was so close to the #1 seed that she asked him to sit in her box.  He is the world's greatest blowhard, and golf would be better off without him.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #101 on: September 15, 2010, 06:13:19 PM »
Jim,

so personal dislike for Donald Trump is a good reason for you. What about all the people working at this resort that would be out of work. Regardless of what you think about the man behind the money it is probably best to look at the whole picture. Tje jobs being created both at the resort and through spin offs will be very welcome in the Aberdeen area. With lines like 'I don't like your boss so you should lose your job' you aren't going to make many friends!!!

Jon

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #102 on: September 16, 2010, 02:00:17 AM »
Tje jobs being created both at the resort and through spin offs will be very welcome in the Aberdeen area.
Eastern Europe surely ?

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #103 on: September 16, 2010, 02:13:35 AM »
Tje jobs being created both at the resort and through spin offs will be very welcome in the Aberdeen area.
Eastern FellowEurope surely ? ;)

Maybe, maybe not Brian. Some maybe be taken by non Brits but many will be.

Ross Tuddenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2010, 04:16:37 AM »
John,

That was not an entirely serious comment.  I was just trying to indicate the area would make a better set of rare dune systems than it would a golf course.  Certainly one which looks to have an island fairway, then an island green.  In my view it has already failed, in the sense it failed to treat the area with any respect.

Are you from the Aberdeen area?

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #105 on: September 16, 2010, 09:06:54 AM »
    This is hardly an apples to apples comparison, and I am not suggesting that Trump is the Bin Laden of golf course development, but I suspect that many here aren't too interested in a $100 million economic infusion two blocks from ground zero.  Just sayin.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Donald...
« Reply #106 on: September 16, 2010, 09:22:16 AM »
I think that Donald Trump has been good for golf.

He took failing clubs and revitalized them.
HOW is that bad ?

He took and old tract of land, containing bomb shelters and created a good golf course in West Palm Beach.

He runs a quality golf operation.

How is that bad ?

Why do seemingly intelligent people join his clubs ?
Why do seemingly intelligent people pay signficant sums to join his clubs ?

The concept of join one, play them all is pretty clever and appealing.

Why is he perceived as bad for golf ?

Don't forget that some people like waterfalls, and, they usually have NO IMPACT on the quality of the hole, and the play of the the hole

His new Bedminster course has gotten very favorable reviews.

So, tell me, how is Donald Trump not been good for golf.

Oh, that's right, you don't like how he promotes himself and his products.

Seems to me that he's done  a pretty good job at both

Ross Tuddenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #107 on: September 16, 2010, 09:51:48 AM »
Patrick_Mucci

In this particular example I guess you cannot assume that what is good for golf is good for society as a whole.  In this case the environment and other local factors seem not to be in line with what might be a successful golfing project.

I have not played or even been to a trump golf club so cannot comment on the golfing merits of his work.

Although this does not look good.

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1919128?UserKey=

Maybe he has handled things better in the US, or tried less controversial projects, but I can assure you everyone I know in the Uk would associate trump with negative connotations.  But of course that is just my limited perspective.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #108 on: September 16, 2010, 05:22:44 PM »
Ross,

I am living just north of Inverness so no I am not from the Aberdeen area, which part of Aberdeen are you from?. I have yet to meet anyone from there until now that is against the Trump project although many are not so happy with its impact. I think you have to look at the whole picture in this case. I think you are entirely serious in wishing the project to fail as why would you state this again in your reply?

John

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #109 on: September 17, 2010, 03:28:47 AM »
Stumbled across this today..

http://sport.stv.tv/golf/197603-trump-plans-toughest-hole-in-the-world-in-aberdeenshire/

Makes you wonder if Trump has input on the course design ???

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Donald...
« Reply #110 on: September 17, 2010, 08:14:52 AM »
Ross,

As to the negative connotations, I think that's a by-product of his persona.
He seems to rub certain people the wrong way, but, the quality of the products/projects he produces is outstanding.

I wonder, if TOC was a Trump creative project today, would opposition, such as yours, be any different.
Would the environmentalists claim disaster ?
Is TOC good for golf ?  Good for the economy ?   Harmful to the environment ?

I'm not familiar with it, but why is his project in your area so bad, so harmful.
How does it differ from dozens of other links courses on the sea in Scotland and Great Britain ?

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #111 on: September 17, 2010, 10:20:25 AM »
Patrick
As has been pointed out many times, over many threads .............. its not a golf project !
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 10:23:20 AM by Brian_Ewen »

Ross Tuddenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #112 on: September 17, 2010, 10:53:11 AM »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Donald...
« Reply #113 on: September 17, 2010, 05:51:00 PM »
Ross,

I'm not going to read the references.

Just tell me why YOU think the project is bad for golf, Scotland, the environment and the local economy.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #114 on: October 08, 2010, 01:51:31 AM »
I feel so proud that the next President of the USA is building a course in my area  ::)

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1952353?UserKey=

Trump flies in just hours after revealing he may run for president
Billionaire back on the Great Dunes of Scotland with ambitions of taking on Obama
By Ryan Crighton
Published: 07/10/2010
Donald Trump was back on the Great Dunes of Scotland last night – hours after stunning America by announcing he may run for president.

The billionaire touched down at Aberdeen Airport in his private jet to begin a three-day visit to his £750million golf resort under construction at the Menie Estate.

Before he left New York, however, he declared his interest in taking on Barack Obama in the 2012 race for the White House.

He told the P&J last night he genuinely felt he was the man to fix America’s domestic problems – and his family was ready to run his business empire if he stands.

“A lot of people have been asking me to run for president,” Mr Trump said. “I am having a lot of fun doing what I am doing and today I am in Scotland having fun.

“But America needs help. I haven’t made a decision, but a lot of people want me to do it. I think I could do it – but it is a big commitment and something I must think about.

“It would mean not being able to run the business like normal. I would need to have others involved, like my children, who are very capable, so that wouldn’t be a problem.”

There is uncertainty in the US whether Mr Trump would stand for the Republicans or as an independent, but last night he was in no doubt.

“Some people have been asking me for years (to run for president),” he said. “I am a Republican and, if I decide to do it, it will be for them.”

Mr Trump walked through the back nine holes at his would-be championship course near Balmedie yesterday, making the adjustments he hopes will help create the world’s greatest course.

Today, he will walk the front nine with his team before a series of meetings about the clubhouse design and renovations at the site.
He said: “I am here to walk the course with (designer) Martin Hawtree. We have just walked the back nine and much work has been done.

“The 18 holes have all been started. The back nine is absolutely incredible and it is largely shaped.

“We have now sited the clubhouse. We are designing it right now and it is going to be really beautiful.”

Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen will present Mr Trump with an honorary doctorate of business administration tomorrow. The award of the degree has led to protests and angered the university’s former principal, but Mr Trump was focusing on the positives yesterday.

He said: “I am very honoured by the degree from a great university. It is a great recognition of what we are doing for Scotland, so I am really taking it as a compliment for my whole team.”

Campaigners handed a petition to the university yesterday asking for the honour to be retracted. RGU says it is to recognise Mr Trump’s “business acumen” and commitment to the north-east.

Aberdeenshire Council had backed Mr Trump’s masterplan to build two golf courses, a £250million hotel, 950 holiday homes and 500 houses. The local authority is currently considering further plans for a maintenance unit that would include workers’ accommodation and a mechanics’ workshop.

The championship course will open in 2012 and will be one of the longest in Europe, at more than 7,400 yards off the championship tees.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #115 on: October 08, 2010, 08:56:45 AM »
When you look up "picking the lesser of two evils" in the dictionary there's a picture of this race.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #116 on: March 31, 2011, 10:40:40 PM »
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/features/An-eagle-eye-view-Donald.6743185.jp

An eagle eye view: Donald Trump's dream golf resort takes shape
Published Date: 01 April 2011
By Frank Urquhart
Donald Trump is on course to fulfil his dream and create the world's greatest golf course in Scotland

IT is the golfing masterpiece that Donald Trump is convinced will be his lasting legacy to the sport. On a spectacular stretch of the Scottish coastline the American tycoon's dream of creating the "world's greatest golf course" is becoming a reality.

From the air, the main championship course at Trump's planned £750 million resort can now be clearly seen on the undulating terrain, once hailed by environmentalists as the "jewel in the crown" of Scotland's shifting sand dune systems.

And on the ground the 18 holes that will make up Trump's dream links course are even more striking – weaving through a network of high dunes now stabilised after two seasons of arduous marram grass planting.

With the course due to open for the first time next summer, all 18 holes have effectively been shaped amongst the dramatic coastal landscape. The majority of the tees have been completed and work has already begun on creating the greens which the controversial entrepreneur hopes will one day test Tiger Woods, Lee Westwood and the rest of golf's superstars at a future Ryder Cup or Open Championship.

Later this summer the final phase of the transformation of the Menie dunes will get underway when contractors move in to begin seeding the fairways which have already been carved through the 2.5 mile stretch of coast which Trump has dubbed "The Great Dunes of Scotland".

Trump, who has hailed the land as the "perfect canvas" on which to create the greatest golf course in the world, is due to fly into the Scotland within the next few weeks on his new £60 million Boeing 757 jet – bought from Paul Allen, one of the founders of Microsoft – to inspect the progress being made at the sprawling site. And yesterday Sarah Malone, executive vice president of Trump International Scotland, predicted that her boss will be delighted and thrilled by what he sees.

Ms Malone, who is in day-to-day charge of the Menie estate development, said: "The amount of work that has been done in the last three months in particular has been phenomenal and we are beginning to see the fruits of our labour.

"Mr Trump will be visiting the site in the not-too-distant future and it will be an important visit for him as we begin the fine shaping and details of the course. I am confident he will be very pleased by what he sees."

Work began last winter on the construction of the golf course when workers moved onto the dunes to begin the first phase of marram grass planting. SOL Golf Course Construction, based in Ballydesmond, Co Cork, has been appointed as the main contractor for the development – working to a design by Dr Martin Hawtree, the prominent golf architect and a leading authority on links golf who has previusly worked on Royal Birkdale, Portmarnock, Lahinch and Carnoustie.

A team of 20 marram grass planters have been working since November on the second phase of hand sprigging thousands of marram plants on the dunes with work due to be completed in a matter of days.

SOL has already worked on various Open Championship courses on behalf of the Royal and Ancient, including Royal Liverpool, Royal Lytham & St Annes, Muirfield and Royal Birkdale. Mr Malone said the massive construction scheme was, if anything, slightly ahead of the planned schedule. She said: "Hand sprigging is an incredibly labour intensive technique and this season has gone extremely well. The dunes are already looking much more stable and mature and that work will continue over the next couple of years during the winter months – November through to March.

"There is a colossal expanse of land and sand blow is part of the process so we will continue to go back in and strengthen the marram grass planting year on year. We have also begun hydro seeding in the next stage in the process, using rye grass to encourage and support the marram grass. The rye only lasts for a season but the seed will support the marram in its growing process."

She explained: "There will be five tee boxes on every hole. All the tee boxes on the back nine have been completed and we are halfway through the tees on the front nine. In about three weeks' time, our irrigation system will be live and fully operational and we will start laying the turf on the tee boxes in the middle of April. We have created our own drainage network and we have invested in drilling our own wellfield which will provide us with up to 800 cubic metres of water per day. A colossal amount of water is required for the ongoing maintenance of the course. Work is expected to begin in June on laying turf on the greens. And later this summer the final phase will begin when the first fairways are sown with a mixture of bent and fescue seeds.

Ms Malone said: "There has been significant earth works, but the dunes have really not been touched. This is an environmentally sensitive construction project which will only enhance the landscape. We have been sculpting and massaging the landscape to create holes that were already there. I think anyone that has seen the course, even before we put a spade in the ground, recognised that the golf course lay out had been mapped out by nature.

"The whole design ethos, which is the hallmark of Martin Hawtree's work, is that the golf course works seamlessly within the landscape."

Ms Malone stressed: "This is an extremely important project for Mr Trump – a very personal project as he has continually said. And we all believe it is a history-making project. He has ploughed everything into this. He has great confidence in the land and the design and he has never taken his foot off the accelerator. Anybody coming to this site is going to
overwhelmed by the beauty of the landscape and the majesty of the dunes."

Esie O'Mahony is the construction manager with SOL who leads the team of 60 workers at the site. Menie, he said emphatically, was destined to become a "legendary" course. Mr Mahoney continued: "I think that anyone who knows golf will certainly rate it as one of the greatest golf courses in the world. Undoubtedly it will reach that status. We are looking to get the most out of every hump, hollow, tee, green, and every fairway – getting 100 per cent out of the site.

"It's the fine-tuning that Martin Hawtree does so well. There might be a half-metre mound which will make all the difference – whether it will kick a ball left, or right or straight forwards. That's why he is a genius."

And he added: "It has been a pleasure to work on this contract. It has been the highlight of my career. And it is only going to go downhill from here. You are never going to get a site like this or a client like this again. It is going to be hard to motivate yourself to go to work once we are finished here."

Jim Nugent

Re: The Donald...
« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2011, 01:57:10 AM »
Brian, thanks for the reprint.  Reads like Trump himself wrote it.  Five separate tee boxes on each hole?   

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #118 on: May 17, 2011, 06:15:09 AM »
A very interesting and well balanced account of the Aberdeen Application.  Its long, but well worth the read.

http://www.andywightman.com/docs/martin_ford_ch.pdf

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Donald...
« Reply #119 on: May 17, 2011, 08:39:56 AM »
Brian, thanks for the reprint.  Reads like Trump himself wrote it.  Five separate tee boxes on each hole?   

Jim,

Don't most on this site clamor for golfers  to play from the appropriate tees ?

This is a resort, catering to every level of golfer, seasoned, beginners, old, young, men and women.

Playing from the appropriate tees will enhance their experience and enjoyment as well as the experience and enjoyment of everyone playing behind them.

How many sets of  tees would you have built ?
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Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #120 on: May 17, 2011, 10:01:33 AM »
3- 7000, 6300, 5600
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Donald...
« Reply #121 on: May 17, 2011, 11:53:02 AM »

3- 7000, 6300, 5600

Jud,

That seems like too big of a gap between 6,300 and 7,000.

When was the last time a British Open was conducted on a course at 7,000 yards or less ?

What yardages are most Professional and Amateur Tournaments conducted at in the UK ?

Why are you answering for Jim Nugent ?
Is he not capable of speaking for himself ?


Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #122 on: May 17, 2011, 11:58:34 AM »
When the British Open is conducted on this course I will eat my hat in front of everyone on this board.  With a fine Chianti...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Donald...
« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2011, 11:59:29 AM »
Of course I'm sure they'll get the Ryder Cup.... ???
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The Donald...
« Reply #124 on: May 17, 2011, 08:18:09 PM »
Jud,

Have you played the course yet ?

If not, On what basis are you judging it ?

How would you rate it ?

Slope or slope equivalent ?

Peer courses ?

I'm curious as to your rating criteria.

Are you stating, unequivically, that NO professional or amateur tournaments will ever be held on this course ?

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