Forget about the Competiton Balls and Clubs, how about the Competition

[Doug Ralston]

Who cares what the numbers are? They all have access to the same clubs, access to the same balls. If the Tour average falls to 67, so what? It is against each other they compete, not against the courses. If new equipment mean lowers scores, they can still all get that equipment.

Right now the PGA is putting out a great product, and fans are eating it up. I think the PGA will think long and hard before fixing what ain't broke. Yes, the eight-year plague has made economics difficult, but that has nothing to do with PGA golf. It is still extremely popular. Leave it alone please. Do you really think the fans will be glad to see the pros playing with inferior equipment?

Not happening. Why fuss over it.

GCA, do you really care if Pros shoot 65 on your course instead of 69? I think most of you build for those who play far from that. The professional golfer is not your target. And most players on Bandon Dunes or Greywalls are NOT going to annihilate your layout.

Be tranquil. No terrible ruin is coming to golf. Just a small adjustment in Pro scores and amatuer distances and thinking.

All this hand wringing ................. 

Doug

[Chuck Brown]

Doug, I confess that I don't care a great deal whether the Vardon Trophy winner has a scoring average of 66-point-smoething, or 69-point-something.

But what I care about even less, is whether Acushnet can maximaze profits on one or more of its 2,000 golf ball patents.  And I do not care how the USGA decides to reduce the fail-point on its ODS testing standards.

I do care, sort of, whether or not JB Holmes can routinely hit 350+ yard drives.  I'd like him to not be able to do that.

[Brent Hutto]

I do care, sort of, whether or not JB Holmes can routinely hit 350+ yard drives.  I'd like him to not be able to do that.

Well, unlike some of the discussants on this topic at least you come right out and say it.

For my part, when I see something like that the thought that occurs to me is "Gee, he sure hits the heck out of the ball" rather than "Boy, I wish he couldn't do that". But that's just me...

[JMEvensky]

I do care, sort of, whether or not JB Holmes can routinely hit 350+ yard drives.  I'd like him to not be able to do that.

Well, unlike some of the discussants on this topic at least you come right out and say it.

For my part, when I see something like that the thought that occurs to me is "Gee, he sure hits the heck out of the ball" rather than "Boy, I wish he couldn't do that". But that's just me...

I,too,would give JB Holmes props for hitting the heck out of the ball and I sure as Hell wish I could do it.But,I don't think I'd want him to win the Vardon Trophy based largely on that singular skill.

Would it be analagous to downplay Wilt Chamberlain for averaging 50.4 ppg to win a scoring title even though he rarely scored outside of the lane?Or do you congratulate Chamberlain for making the most of a singular skill?

I don't know the answer nor do I even know if there are parallels.

[Brent Hutto]

I believe if there were a parallel the discussion here would be about whether we all ought to play a 12-foot basketball goal or if only the NBA should play a 12-foot basketball goal. Then someone would ask, "How about college, how about the Olympics, where do you draw the line". And then the analogue would be complete.

[JMEvensky]

I believe if there were a parallel the discussion here would be about whether we all ought to play a 12-foot basketball goal or if only the NBA should play a 12-foot basketball goal. Then someone would ask, "How about college, how about the Olympics, where do you draw the line". And then the analogue would be complete.

You're probably right.

There seems to be something in the playing field/equipment/athlete/history mixture of golf that makes it unique.

Still,it'd be fun to watch "elite" 40 year-olds try to jam on a 12 foot hoop.

[Kalen Braley]

Unlike just about every other major sport....golf is the only one where you play the course, not directly against your opponent.

No need to raise the rim because shooting %'s and scoring isn't getting any easier in the NBA.

[Brent Hutto]

No need to raise the rim because shooting %'s and scoring isn't getting any easier in the NBA.

Yeah but they're scoring with driver-wedge, so to speak. Raise the rim and they'll be shooting 4-irons.

[Garland Bayley]

Unlike just about every other major sport....golf is the only one where you play the course, not directly against your opponent.

No need to raise the rim because shooting %'s and scoring isn't getting any easier in the NBA.

Basketball should be raised to a 12 foot goal, because it has turned into a boring game where physical freaks dominate. And the fans are going for the freak show, not for the beauty of the beautiful game.

[JMEvensky]

Unlike just about every other major sport....golf is the only one where you play the course, not directly against your opponent.

No need to raise the rim because shooting %'s and scoring isn't getting any easier in the NBA.

Basketball should be raised to a 12 foot goal, because it has turned into a boring game where physical freaks dominate. And the fans are going for the freak show, not for the beauty of the beautiful game.

Nah,just make them play 4 on 4.The problem is more horizontal than vertical.

[Mark Smolens]

Wilt made 28 free throws on April 4, 1962, to go along with his 36 field goals (9 of which were fadeaway jumpers from 12' and beyond).

[Bill_McBride]

The problem doesn't lie with the competition between the players, it's what the distance those players can hit it does to the classic courses that now have giant back tees up in the sky, and all the land now needed to build a 7,500 yard course versus a 6,500 yard course challenging for 99% of golfers.

[George Pazin]

They did change the rules because of Wilt, no? Didn't they change the key?

I couldn't care less if JB hits the ball 450. I do care greatly that they are altering the best courses because of however far he hits the ball.

I also don't like how slow he is, but that is a battle for another day.

Btw, are folks really flocking to the PGA? Does the PGA really produce a great product? I was under the impression ratings are down, especially when Tiger is not in the field. I know I'm not watching, other than the 4 majors and a handful of other rounds in particular events.

[Sean_A]

The PGA a great product?  Competing against a course?  Lord forgive them, for they know not what they say.

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

George is is spot on: I only care of what happens on tour doesn't stay on tour and they mess with courses I love.

I suspect I - and the other Deal guys on here - are part of a small group in that our course was longer 70 years ago than it is now!

[Shawn Arlia]

What i would particularly like to see again are professionals who have to hit shots to score well. Its BORING watching the pga tour when everyone is hitting driver wedge into every green. I dont care about what score they are neccessarily shooting. I just want to see them shoot those scores with skill. In other words, i would like to see the artistry of golf come back again.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Here is the thing - JBH hasn't won a Vardon Trophy, and he hasn't really won much of anything on Tour. So, why obsess that he has such an advantage, when statistically, he really doesn't?

As to how boring golf is to watch, at least on TV, its hard to see a ball curve or whatever.  If anything, the new technology allows us to see shot patterns, at least in enhanced replays.  But when the ball goes up, there is still a sense of anticipation of where it will come down, isn't there?

And I would argue that there is just as much artistry in a low trajectory, high spin shot, if that is what is called for, as there is in a bump and run.  What makes one type of shot inherently more artistic?

[Mark Pearce]

I hate to say it, but when I think about it, I wonder if the USGA and R&A haven't got this right, at least in part.  There's some excitement in seeing the ball hit an enormous distance.  Even with today's equipment that thakes both skill and power.  What is boring, however, is that the risk of hitting driver has been reduced because these guys can just hit wedge onto the green from anywhere if they miss the fairway.  Increasing the penalty for a missed drive by making a missed green more likely would help and maybe this change in the groove ruile will have that effect. 

Like I say, I don't mind the ball being hit a long way, so long as straight is impiortant and long driving isn't the only skill that matters.  I want to see great iron play rewarded, I want to see imagination in the short game, I want to see great scrambling.  I don't want to watch bomb and gouge.

BTW, if anyone thinks today's tours (on both sides of the Atlantic) are a great product they are easily pleased.  Boring, repetitive mono-dimensional games played at the pace of a snail by players the majority of whom have the charm and personality of a plank of wood.  A game (at least in the US) so dependent on one player that when he isn't playing, viewing numbers and attendances plummet.  That doesn't sound like a healthy sport to me.