Is Fishers Island overrated?

[Patrick_Mucci]

TE,

Many years ago, when we were in our early teens, we used to burn out an area deep in the woods every year, then dam it so that it made a great skating rink for us in the winter.

One year we decided to use gasoline as an accelerant.
We bought a lot of gasoline.
Then we walked and emptied the cans over the entire area, which took some time.
Then, we couldn't get a match lit because it was cold and we got some of them lit.

As more and more time went by, you could see the fumes in the air.
I remembered a story a friend of mine's father told, about how explosive and powerful gasoline was.
So I suggested, wrapping a cloth around a stick, soaking it in gasoline, lighting it, and throwing it into the cleared, gasoline soaked area from a safe distance.  Some of the older kids made fun of my reluctance to get close to the soaked area.
I then told them what my friend's father had said.
When we threw that lighted stick into the area, it didn't light, it exploded.
The heat was intense.
Had anyone been standing closer, they would have been seriously burned.
I developed a healthy respect for unignited, standing gasoline that day.

From then on, we were more safety oriented when we burned the grass/weeds in Skunk's Pond

[TEPaul]

Don't worry about that incident Patrick, when I was a kid in Daytona Beach Florida and me and my friends were in that common pyromaniac stage (most kids back then got into with North Carolina "Blue Tip" matches) we set a hayfield on fire and to our horror it set a couple of residentiial apartment buildings on fire.

So what we did is just hie it on outta there early on, circle back on our bikes after a certain amount of time and then joined the crowd with the firemen and ask what in the hell happened here!  

You know, on a subject more apropos to FI I was looking at a History Channel program the other day entitled "The Force of Hurricanes." It was about the effects up the Northeast Coast of that remarkable hurricane of 1938. My God what a mess. Do you know how much damage it did to Fishers Island and the golf course? If you don't I bet Donnie Beck could supply us with some photographs of the results of it that would literally blow our socks off!

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

On a serious note, I noticed several areas of weeds, where tees and greens were right next to them.

Today, those tees and greens couldn't be built, which, in my opinion is ridiculous.

I also noticed the invasive nature of those weeds.

Just go back to your 1938 picture of The Creek and you'll see that the area between # 13 and # 14 was sand.
Today, it's all tall reeds.
They should be removed, but, the environazis won't permit that.

The unbridled growth of reeds, to the degree that they block the lines of sight and impede ball flight is a serious problem.

Years ago, areas like that used to be burned out annually, as did many areas of rough at many older courses.
Today, that's no longer permitted and the play of the golf course suffers because of it.
The cost to achieve the same affect as the "burn out" is very high, and alternative methods are no where near as effective, especially when you factor in cost.

If Bandon Dunes was located in Long Island, how would the land have been cleared ?
Would the required permits be granted to clear the gorse ?

[George_Bahto]

Patrick:
> "How about "The Knoll" hole ?  (13-Piping Rock)
Is that a great hole ?
Not a single bunker on the entire hole, yet, it's as challenging as you can get"


when I went to Scotland to revisit the holes C B was so impressed with, prior to the Old Mac design work - one of the courses (holes) we visited was Scotscraig  where the 4th hole was the inspiration for the Knoll hole.

The green was virtually identical as PR-13 but the green was set off at a pretty severe angle to the fairway. I think there is a drawing of the original in The Evangelist of Golf book.

The tee shot plays to a narrowing fairway - the longer you hit it, the narrower it gets and as I said the green sit off at an severe angle to the fairway center line.

I lobbied real hard to get it included on the Old Macdonald design but there was so much to pick from.

None of they Knoll hole built were anything like the Scotscraig 4thScotscraig 4th

[Patrick_Mucci]

George,

The 10th at Fishers Island is a difficult hole since it plays into a prevailing wind.

That green, sitting high atop the Knoll, is a real challenge, from 200 to 30 yards away.

On my next visit I'll study the surrounding topography to get a better feel for the degree of construction on the natural landform.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The other hole I'd like to discuss is the par 5, 6th hole, a par 5 without a single fairway bunker on it, that provides an incredible challenge, from tee to DZ to second shot LZ to green.

It's a brilliant use of the landform with the undulating, pitched fairway.

Other than on the tee and on the green, I don't think there's a flat lie on that fairway.

I'd like to know, of the people who played that hole, how many birdied it, parred it, or bogied it or worse.

It presents an incredible challenge without a single fairway bunker.

But, then again, there wasn't a single fairway bunker on the entire golf course when it opened..

[TEPaul]

Pat:

That one really is a challenging hole in some unusual ways. I don't think I remember another par 5 where the third shot (generally a wedge for me) was so inscrutable in ways I still haven't completely figured out.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

For me,  while I had a relatively short shot into the green, I had a rather pronounced uphill lie.

The difficulty with the pronounced uphill lie is in gaging the distance to the hole, especially when the hole is cut toward the back or flanks of the putting surface.

I ended up hitting a 9-iron, but, it came up short of the hole, leaving me a long putt.

The other factor is the effect of the wind on that uphill, high trajectory shot.
It certainly complicates the decision making process and the execution of the shot.

At 520, I thought it played much longer due to the topography in the DZ and second shot LZ.

Certainly, one couldn't claim that the hole was a template or a replica.
It's a very unique golf hole, unlike any other I've seen.
And, it played differently from most, if not all of the other par 5's I've played, due mostly to the terrain and lies encountered.

It's quite unique, aside from the fact that there's NO fairway bunkering.