GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture Discussion Group
Quaker Ridge GC (Tillinghast) in Scarsdale, NY
Phil_the_Author:
Jeff,
There are a number of examples where course design attribution has been incorrectly given to the wrong person or no one at all, when it may have been someone as famous as Tilly who did it.
In the next edition of Tillinghast Illustrated we will be revealing an example of a course that Tilly designed in 1927 just north of New York City that no one has known of his injvolvement for maqny years now. It was actually discovered by a member who came across a reference to Tilly at the club and who found in the original club minutes incontrovertible proof ranging from direct mentions of his work, a sketch of the layout and even a bill for his services!
Jaeger Kovich:
As some of you know, I've been working at QR for 2 seasons now. I've worked just about every job at the club, and have recently been asked to come up with new designs for our chipping green and 1st tee area. I'm sure Philip and Tom know a bit more about the dates, history and little known designers than I do, so I'll leave that to them...
Robert - You have some good pics of the new/original #17... I think the hole plays much better now. Before, any shot to a pin on the left would play an extra 10 yards, and cause ll sorts of confusion to payers who had never seen it before. Any pin on the left still requires more club because of the high-faced bunker Hanse built, so many of the same characteristics exist, but in a much better way.
Also, you photos of #10 are now out of date! Hanse reshaped all of the bunkers, were in need of some help. Also the green has been expanded in the back (cant wait to see new pin positions back there) and brought the approach/fairway closer to the tee, and around the front bunker.
VK - I understand you comments about the "lack" of par-5s and the back to back par 3's. I dont really think the back-to back par 3's is ideal either, but individually they are great holes, especially #9, which plays hardest compared to par every year in the Hochster Invitation. With the positioning of the clubhouse and lack of space, there is simply no way around the 2 one shotters.
The closing par -4's i think are fairly appropriate compared to the rest of the round. #15 and 17 dont require driver of the tee, and #16 and 18 are challenging, both playing towards the clubhouse.
Neither #6 nor 7 are close to my favorites on the course, although our members and guests seem to love/hate them because of the difficulty factor. Personally I think 7 is much harder. They both require 2 perfect and long shots just to reach the greens, and then they only get harder from there. I have seen plenty of people putt off the green on #7, thats if they dont pick up first. While #6 seem completely original to me, #7 seems to fit in with Tilly design style. I can think of plenty Tillinghast holes that require a near 90* right turn. #1 at BPB and #5 at WF East, to name 2. Plus I think the forced carry/lay-up 2nd is an interesting variation of the "great hazard".
#14 actually is in major need of a renovation, which is supposed to happen next year. A classic Tilly DOUBLE dog-leg, this hole belongs up there with BPB #4... It once had upwards of 20 bunkers, and no creek on the right, into the hogsback green. I hope Hanse puts them back next year, because I'm tired of players asking how far to carry the bunkers on their 2nd shot... I want them to be scared to carry, although its not that far, and lay it up on the right, the only flat part of the hole!
Stu - You say the first 5 holes are ordinary, but I would argue otherwise. #1 is a classic Tillinghast par 5, which must have been a template, because he also used it at Ridgewood, NJ. It provides a solid chance for birdie, an easy par, and probably has more 3-putts than any other hole on the course!... Welcome to Quaker Ridge!
#2 is all about risking the OB... Good luck if you play a draw, because you will either have to take on the trees/white stakes, or you will hit it through the fairway on the left.
#3 - Ill give you that one, its def not my favorite, although it always has the longest drives on the course because they catch the downslope just past the bunker and run.
#4 is awesome and a new/original specimen tree will be going back on the right side... Hit it through the goal posts!
#5 I think is a pretty solid short hole. 150 yrds from the blue, surrounded by hazards. You must find the right side of the ridge (front/back) or you can turn an easy par into a bogey.
In my opinion: Quaker is about the best course, with the least ideal routing I have ever seen! OB on the first 8 holes.. Yikes! Quaker is all about the tee shots and the greens... If you dont place the ball in the right spots on the fairway you will never score, and as a par-70, scoring is hard to begin with. QR is a great example of variety in par-3s. My favorite holes are #11, 9 and #15.
Tom MacWood:
--- Quote from: Philip Young on October 26, 2009, 11:49:17 AM ---Michael,
That they unequivocably state that they bought the new land must have SOME basis in fact and documentation as I strongly doubt that someone pulled the date out of thin air. Likewise as the statement that Tilly was brought in by them to do the work, a fact that C&W accept in their compilation of his work.
As for Daniel's claims about changes to the course, he doesn't list actual dates for the alterations that he cites, nor does he name anyone as the person responsible for them.
The club defintively states that Tilly redesigned 7 holes and designed 11 new ones in 1917 and that he did a redesign after land was purchased in 1925. Other than supposition, there has not been a single thing posted that would have anyone think differently. Now beore anyone thionks differently, I have a very open mind on this subject, which is why I honestly stated that I look forward to his post to see what he has "discovered."
--- End quote ---
Phil
Is your information taken from the club's website?
Phil_the_Author:
That is but one of my sources...
Again, what is your new information?
Tom MacWood:
Phil
I'd say club websites are even less reliable than club histories, for example the Williamsport GC website claims Tilly designed their first nine in 1909. Hopefully I will be able to post what I have later today.
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