Quaker Ridge GC (Tillinghast) in Scarsdale, NY

[Steve_ Shaffer]

“It is so much of a treat to play.  There is such a beautiful mix of holes at Quaker Ridge; it is truly a Tillinghast Gem.” --  Ben Crenshaw
“That may be, but there is quite a golf course down the street.” -- Jack Nicklaus, when asked if Winged Foot was the greatest course in the world.
“I’d like to go on record as saying it would be a tough test of golf for any tournament – the U.S. Open and the PGA included.”  -- Jimmy Demaret






I recently played Quaker Ridge Golf Club on a beautiful, crisp fall day without my camera. The pictures here are culled from various sites. Quaker Ridge is probably one of the least well known of the world's great courses. As is their right, the members like to keep it a low-key affair.I might add that I was very impressed with the clubhouse. The food was outstanding. There is no driving range but there is an indoor teaching facilty and a short game area adjacent to the 18th hole. Golf Digest now rates it 81 in their Top 100. This is a dramatic drop from its previous rating of 33 in 2007. Golf Week rates it 37 in its Top 100 Classics. Golf Magazine has it at 42. What's wrong with GD raters is all I can say.

Quaker Ridge is located in New York's Westchester County, immediately adjacent to Winged Foot, in Scarsdale, New York. The area has a bit of a New England feel to it with its rolling terrain, low stonewalls bordering many properties, and its stately, mature trees. Quaker Ridge takes its name from a group of Quakers who used this land for farming beginning in 1726. The "ridge" part of the name becomes obvious when you play the course. Quaker Ridge is blessed with much better terrain that its nearby neighbor Winged Foot, which is on more-or-less flat ground.

 This par 70, 6,880y golf course, designed by A.W. Tillinghast  has hosted three Met Opens, two Met Amateurs, two Met PGA Championships,the 1997 Walker Cup and numerous exhibition matches between golfing greats.  Throughout its history many prominent club members have attempted to conquer the course as well, among them: Louis Gimbel, Samuel Bloomingdale, Alfred Knopf, and world-renowned American composer George Gershwin.

John Duncan Dunn designed a nine-hole layout here in 1916, and A.W. Tillinghast was brought in during the 1920s to redo the course and expand it to eighteen holes. Tillinghast is responsible for the course that exists today. The course was re-bunkered by Rees Jones who made some other minor alterations before the 1997 Walker Cup. Gil Hanse is restoring many of the original Tillinghast bunkers now. As per GCA member Jaeger Kovich, here is a list of the work that has been done and is being done now:

#17 is a "new" green complex, where he reverted to original design.
#18 the fairway bunker was added, the fairway shifted and expanded and the greenside bunkers were reworked... he wanted to get rid of the right bunker, but the committee wouldn't let it go.
#7 all the bunkers were reshaped and the 2nd half of the fairway was expanded.
#5 the green was expanded, raised the depth of the right bunker, and reshaped them all
#9 (the redan-esque par 3) the bunkers were reshaped for the 2nd time in recent years

... I dont remember how far along the work was when you were there, but
#10 is now finished, the green has been expanded
#11 the fairway bunker on the right has been changed to a series of 3 (The wall over the creek is going to come down and the green expanded to create a false front)
#12 fairway bunker on right is now 2x the size, and fairway bunker on the left has gone back in (original design) and the green-side have been reworked
#13 (Reef Hole) both bunkers and the fairway being expanded
#4 will be getting a new specimen tree on the right (original design)

The defining characteristics of Quaker Ridge are the trees, the out of bounds and the greens. The greens are very good, subtle and very fast; sixteen of them slope back to front. The course is like many courses found in Westchester County,  tree-lined-as were the other 2 courses I also played- Sunningdale and Metropolis.  The other thing you notice about Quaker Ridge when you begin playing is that the angles you take coming into the greens are of paramount importance. Positioning your tee ball is very important.



A good example of why the angles to the green are important is the fourth hole above. The fourth is a 430y par four with a narrow fairway and a green that falls sharply off a hill on the left side. As you can see , if you are on the right side of the fairway, the trees come into play, making your approach shot likely to fall off left of the green in a large bunker.
The smarter play on this hole is to hit the ball to the left side of the fairway off the tee.  When you stand on the tee, you see a big grass bunker that slashes across the fairway, creating an intimidating line that you have to hit over to a blind landing area. This is a good example of the type of strategic Tillinghast design found at Quaker Ridge.

The same applies at the famous eleventh hole. There are two trees on the left side of the fairway that block your shot to the green if you are not correctly positioned on the right side of the fairway. The shot to the green is over a creek to a narrow green guarded by a stonewall in front . I pulled my tee shot to the left,pitched out to the fairway leaving a 100y shot to the green which I executed perfectly to about 10' and proceeded to make the putt.


The first eight holes at Quaker Ridge have an out-of-bounds along the right side of the hole and circle the property counter-clockwise. The next six holes at Quaker Ridge circle back in a clockwise fashion, before play goes back toward the clubhouse. The seventh hole has out of bounds long:

The eighth is a unique Tillinghast hole with a huge grass bunker in the middle of the fairway which rises up a hill and between rows of trees. This hole takes advantage of the terrain. It's a short par4 at 359y from the tips.It is one of my favorites.



The best stretches of holes on the course are six through eleven. Six and seven are back-to-back, dogleg right par four holes. Six and seven might be as difficult a pair of par fours as you will find on any course. They are the #1 and #3 handicaps, respectively. The sixth has a creek running down the left hand side and is in play off the tee. The right hand side of the hole has a grass slope on the right and the fairway between the slope and water is about twenty-five yards wide. The hole plays longer than its 446y because the shot to the small green plays uphill. The dogleg is quite severe and to add additional difficulty there is a big tree on the right side of the hole that must be avoided off the tee. In his book, The 500 Greatest Golf Holes, George Peper, ranks this hole in an unprecedented three categories of composite courses of eighteen holes. Among the 18 most strategic holes in the world, it ranks as one of the 18 best holes ever designed by A.W. Tillinghast and as one of the 18 most difficult holes in the world.
 The 14th, 15th and 17th holes have major undulations in the greens and several ridges and humps reminiscent of buried elephants.  They are quite good and add a lot of character to the finish at Quaker Ridge. Most of the other holes at Quaker Ridge have very subtle breaks to the fast greens; these are not subtle.

 
The course is VERY challenging. I played from the blues which were more than I could handle at my advancing age. Here are the ratings/slopes:

BLACK 6880y 74.5/145
BLUE   6418y  72.6/143
WHITE 6161y 71.2/140

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

This is the new 17th green, which is really the original green before RTJ added a left area siimilar to an upside down L.


This is the cleaned up 10th.  Probably over 50 trees have been removed.

[Kevin Pallier]

I was there recently for a look as well. Was the grassed mound in the middle of the 8th original or Tilly ?

[V. Kmetz]

While Bethpage B may reveal Tillie's eye on Pine Valley, QR can be seen to be nodding a bit towards Merion.  I don't necessarily mean architectural values, but the serenity of the property (though the Hutchison Pkwy parallels the 4th and the 8th parallels active Griffen Avenue) with a roughly similar sense of flats, valleys and heaving sweeps here and there.  Perhaps the layout similarities regarding holes right up against the clubhouse and goodly portions of the property flaring out on both sides of its hub also contribute this feeling, to me.

Though I'm going to spend a paragraph or two stating my opinion on its shortcomings, those shortcomings are only considered when I'm roaming around the Hall of Fame of GCA and considering Hall of Famers against one another.  Certainly, Quaker Ridge belongs in any such category; it is a Tillie-typical rigorous set of demands on the approach game, weak shots are not accepted - with little good fortune available for mediocre strikes.  The green sites are varied, some welcome shots, some appear dangerous.  Lots of beautiful contours.  The recent work on the 10th and 17th is first rate.  It's picturesque, plays from a fair and solvable yardage and is a pleasant walk through genteel Westchester surrounds.

My hesitations:

1. Only a duo of three-shotters - at the very first minute and then not until the last hour of the round - and back-to-back one-shotters in the direct middle of the round has me crying for relief from the Par 4s at different stages.

1a. In conjunction with the above, the closing stretch of four essentially straight Par 4s in a row, - the last three paralleling one another - rob your round of a little zip.  I like the holes individually, especially the 17th, but grouped together there is something flat and uninteresting about the psychology of the end of your round.

2.  Numbers 6 & 7 - most written reviews about QR invariably cite these two Par 4s (what else at QR?) as memorable holes and speak of them in lofty terms, but I'm not convinced.  While I am willing to say that the land form for 6th - wrapping around a sharp slope hill to a nookish green site - is interesting enough, the right side is far too overgrown for a hole that also presents a lateral hazard all along the left side of the same driving zone.  From the white or blue tees there really isn't a way to use that right slope in a pleasing or effective fashion, because of the thick trees and exposed roots on that side.  But deficient as I find #6, the seventh just seems like a indefinite and awkward hole, with poor turf that's either rocky or mushy.  The combination out-of bounds hard right (another repetitive thing at QR, appearing on 7 of the first 8 holes) and indefinite area, or length, or play in the left side of the drive zone deflect my commitment to a choice of strategy.

Again this is a generally fun, fair and playable course.  The stretch from 8-14 is filled with highest degrees of quality, interest, variety and challenge.  #9 is one of Tillie's unheralded Par 3s and I have never heard anyone give proper credit to the Par 5 14th which has an impressive look and a unique green site (and is the only dog leg left on the course)

cheers

vk

[Tom MacWood]

QR is actually a conglomeration of several men. JD Dunn was the original architect and he actually designed 18 holes. The first nine was completed and the second nine only roughed out when the fledgling club ran into financial problems. A new club was formed around a year later (Wiliam R. Hochster was among the new investors) and Tilly was brought in to complete and reform the design. Dunn's original concept was to include famous holes around the world. You can still see some remnants of that concept.

In the mid-20s the course was thought to be too short; it was only about 6000 yards. The two rival Jewish clubs in the area - Century and Fenway - had or were building brand new courses. Hochster, who dominated the Club as president and chairman of the green committee from 1916 to 1933 (when he died), was in charge of the redesign. It appears he was assisted by the greenkeeper Tom Winton. Tilly has mistakenly been credited for this work. Hochster added several new holes and lengthened others. In the 60s RTJ was called and he made a few changes too.

[Phil_the_Author]

In 1917, Tillinghast was commissioned to redesign 7 existing holes and 11 new ones.  The new course opened in 1918.

In 1925, after the club purchased additional property at its northern corner, the Club brought Tillinghast back to lengthen the course and change a few holes.

[Stu Grant]

I thought that collectively, the first 5 holes at QR were pretty ordinary.

#1 is a pretty good par 5 with some risk/reward elements if you try and challenge the OB and go for the green in two. 

#2 and #3 are standard-far par 4s with little to inspire, in fact by the third hole (one-sixth of the way thru the round already) I’m starting to wonder what is supposed to be so special about this course. 

#4 in my opinion is quite a strong hole (the best of the first 5), then #5 is a standard pond-in-front-of-the-green par-3, nothing that I haven’t seen before.

At this point of the round I’m also noticing that wow, there is OB right on every single hole so far.  Not great variety in that respect.

I certainly recognize that there are some great holes as we get further into the round at QR, but for a course to be considered in the top 50 in the United States I think that the course should be exceptional for the entire round, or at least nearly the entire round.

I respect my fellow GCAs opinions and want to improve my eye for great golf courses.  So please tell me what I am missing about QR, in particular the first 5 holes or roughly first 30% of the golf course.  I’m just not seeing greatness, at least not “top 50 in the USA type of greatness” given the strength of the overall USA golf landscape.

[Tom MacWood]

In 1917, Tillinghast was commissioned to redesign 7 existing holes and 11 new ones.  The new course opened in 1918.

In 1925, after the club purchased additional property at its northern corner, the Club to bring Tillinghast back to lengthen the course and change a few holes.

Phil
What evidence have you found that suggests Tilly came back in 1925?

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

"What evidence have you found that suggests Tilly came back in 1925?"

It is contained in the club's own records and published history.

What evidence do you have that suggests that he did not and that someone else did?

[TEPaul]

"It is contained in the club's own records and published history."


Uh-Oh, Phil, that kind of explanation and answer never worked for me with Tom MacWood. Let's hope it works better for you for some reason!

[Tom MacWood]

Phil
I'll post what I discovered later today. Actually it was Tilly, George Low and Peter Lees who was engaged by the club in 1917. That trio was fairly active in the late teens. This is another example why relying on club histories can be a little dicey.

[Michael J. Moss]

Phil & Tom;

This question: who did the QR redesign - Phil Young says it was a project completed or begun in 1925 (?) - is something I've wondered about for years.

In "Lost Links," Dan Wexler posed a related question, or perhaps the same question, when he compared the course from 1926 and the one played today. The 1925 or 1926 dates are confusing because a great deal of change to the layout occurred after 1926. I use the date 1926, because aerial photos occurred in that year. All the local Westchester County clubs have access to those aerials and Dan, I assume, used this one. The changes that occurred to QR after 1926 are dramatic. Among them, the 2nd hole, which Dan described as a short Redan-like par-3 was removed  to make room for the tennis courts. This begs the question, who built the new(er) par-4, 2nd hole. The old 3rd hole was a par-4 that linked with the current 4th, which was a dogleg left. Another "new" hole is the par-3, 13th. It's a good one, but it didn't exist in '26.

Phil, I would also suggest that without clear club documentation, "oral" histories are often wrong.

[JMEvensky]

Thanks for posting these pictures.QR is one of my favorite courses.

[Tom MacWood]

Phil
Speaking of the club hsitory, what does the club history say about Hochester's involvement?

[Phil_the_Author]

Michael,

I agree with your statement about clear club documentation vs. oral hoistories. Are you stating that the actual published history that the club has put on its website is simply an oral tradition and not based upon club records? If so, upon what do you base this?

One correction to your statement, "Phil Young says it was a project completed or begun in 1925 (?)" The club itself is the one making this statement and what they said, "In 1925, the purchase of additional land at the northern corner of the property prompted the Club to bring Tillinghast back to change a few holes..." is that land was bought in 1925 and they brought Tilly in to change the course. the work appears to have been done during 1925-26...

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

I look forward to seeing what you've "discovered"...

[Michael J. Moss]

Phil,

I have no idea what their Club history is based upon. One would hope they have documentation. I am a Sunningdale member and for years our senior members thought our golf course was designed by AW Tillinghast. In fact, he was the third architect of note on the property. It was originally a Raynor design (1918) followed closesly by Travis. Tillinghast made fewer changes thanTravis, but the Club latched onto the Tillinghast aspect of the narrative.

But if QR bought the new land in 1925, how do you account for all the changes made post 1926, suggested by Dan Wexler? Hopefully Tom will shed some light. It does sound like the QR web site has the wrong story, and I predict the answer will reveal that the course we play and admire today is far less of a Tillinhast design than we thought.

[Phil_the_Author]

Michael,

That they unequivocably state that they bought the new land must have SOME basis in fact and documentation as I strongly doubt that someone pulled the date out of thin air. Likewise as the statement that Tilly was brought in by them to do the work, a fact that C&W accept in their compilation of his work.

As for Daniel's claims about changes to the course, he doesn't list actual dates for the alterations that he cites, nor does he name anyone as the person responsible for them.

The club defintively states that Tilly redesigned 7 holes and designed 11 new ones in 1917 and that he did a redesign after land was purchased in 1925. Other than supposition, there has not been a single thing posted that would have anyone think differently. Now beore anyone thionks differently, I have a very open mind on this subject, which is why I honestly stated that I look forward to his post to see what he has "discovered."

[Jeff_Brauer]

Phil,

TMac is checking the train schedules as we speak!  (Sorry, I couldn't resist......)

In reality, if the documentation is in the official club minutes, I would tend to think its true.  I do know that sometimes club histories that are oral in tradition can be skewed.  Usually, its in favor of a famous gca having been involved somehow, (just like a few old houses around Chicago claim an FLW connection) but I wonder if there are many cases where a Tilllie actually did the work, and yet, somehow, its not credited, especially when he made recommendations on his PGA Tour?

[Michael J. Moss]

Phil,

Can't wait for Tom to report back.

In my own research at Sunningdale, we came into possession of three documents that made our architectural timeline fact. I hope the keepers of "Tillinghast at QR" have the same.

[Phil_the_Author]

Jeff,

There are a number of examples where course design attribution has been incorrectly given to the wrong person or no one at all, when it may have been someone as famous as Tilly who did it.

In the next edition of Tillinghast Illustrated we will be revealing an example of a course that Tilly designed in 1927 just north of New York City that no one has known of his injvolvement for maqny years now. It was actually discovered by a member who came across a reference to Tilly at the club and who found in the original club minutes incontrovertible proof ranging from direct mentions of his work, a sketch of the layout and even a bill for his services!

[Jaeger Kovich]

As some of you know, I've been working at QR for 2 seasons now. I've worked just about every job at the club, and have recently been asked to come up with new designs for our chipping green and 1st tee area. I'm sure Philip and Tom know a bit more about the dates, history and little known designers than I do, so I'll leave that to them...

Robert - You have some good pics of the new/original #17... I think the hole plays much better now. Before, any shot to a pin on the left would play an extra 10 yards, and cause ll sorts of confusion to payers who had never seen it before. Any pin on the left still requires more club because of the high-faced bunker Hanse built, so many of the same characteristics exist, but in a much better way.

Also, you photos of #10 are now out of date! Hanse reshaped all of the bunkers, were in need of some help. Also the green has been expanded in the back (cant wait to see new pin positions back there) and brought the approach/fairway closer to the tee, and around the front bunker.

VK - I understand you comments about the "lack" of par-5s and the back to back par 3's. I dont really think the back-to back par 3's is ideal either, but individually they are great holes, especially #9, which plays hardest compared to par every year in the Hochster Invitation. With the positioning of the clubhouse and lack of space, there is simply no way around the 2 one shotters.
  
The closing par -4's i think are fairly appropriate compared to the rest of the round. #15 and 17 dont require driver of the tee, and #16 and 18 are challenging, both playing towards the clubhouse.

Neither #6 nor 7 are close to my favorites on the course, although our members and guests seem to love/hate them because of the difficulty factor. Personally I think 7 is much harder. They both require 2 perfect and long shots just to reach the greens, and then they only get harder from there. I have seen plenty of people putt off the green on #7, thats if they dont pick up first. While #6 seem completely original to me, #7 seems to fit in with Tilly design style. I can think of plenty Tillinghast holes that require a near 90* right turn. #1 at BPB and #5 at WF East, to name 2. Plus I think the forced carry/lay-up 2nd is an interesting variation of the "great hazard".

#14 actually is in major need of a renovation, which is supposed to happen next year. A classic Tilly DOUBLE dog-leg, this hole belongs up there with BPB #4... It once had upwards of 20 bunkers, and no creek on the right, into the hogsback green. I hope Hanse puts them back next year, because I'm tired of players asking how far to carry the bunkers on their 2nd shot... I want them to be scared to carry, although its not that far, and lay it up on the right, the only flat part of the hole!


Stu - You say the first 5 holes are ordinary, but I would argue otherwise. #1 is a classic Tillinghast par 5, which must have been a template, because he also used it at Ridgewood, NJ. It provides a solid chance for birdie, an easy par, and probably has more 3-putts than any other hole on the course!... Welcome to Quaker Ridge!

#2 is all about risking the OB... Good luck if you play a draw, because you will either have to take on the trees/white stakes, or you will hit it through the fairway on the left.

#3 - Ill give you that one, its def not my favorite, although it always has the longest drives on the course because they catch the downslope just past the bunker and run.

#4 is awesome and a new/original specimen tree will be going back on the right side... Hit it through the goal posts!

#5 I think is a pretty solid short hole. 150 yrds from the blue, surrounded by hazards. You must find the right side of the ridge (front/back) or you can turn an easy par into a bogey.


In my opinion: Quaker is about the best course, with the least ideal routing I have ever seen! OB on the first 8 holes.. Yikes! Quaker is all about the tee shots and the greens... If you dont place the ball in the right spots on the fairway you will never score, and as a par-70, scoring is hard to begin with. QR is a great example of variety in par-3s. My favorite holes are #11, 9 and #15.

[Tom MacWood]

Michael,

That they unequivocably state that they bought the new land must have SOME basis in fact and documentation as I strongly doubt that someone pulled the date out of thin air. Likewise as the statement that Tilly was brought in by them to do the work, a fact that C&W accept in their compilation of his work.

As for Daniel's claims about changes to the course, he doesn't list actual dates for the alterations that he cites, nor does he name anyone as the person responsible for them.

The club defintively states that Tilly redesigned 7 holes and designed 11 new ones in 1917 and that he did a redesign after land was purchased in 1925. Other than supposition, there has not been a single thing posted that would have anyone think differently. Now beore anyone thionks differently, I have a very open mind on this subject, which is why I honestly stated that I look forward to his post to see what he has "discovered."

Phil
Is your information taken from the club's website?

[Phil_the_Author]

That is but one of my sources...

Again, what is your new information?

[Tom MacWood]

Phil
I'd say club websites are even less reliable than club histories, for example the Williamsport GC website claims Tilly designed their first nine in 1909. Hopefully I will be able to post what I have later today.