Course opening... Complete now with accompanying pics

[Greg Tallman]

Kenny....its a Love Golf Design course and the designers of record are Davis Love, his brother Mark, and myself.

Its a private development that has links with other Cabo Resorts, Cabo Del Sol included [Greg Tallman], who will be allowed a certain number of tee times.

Its about 20 minutes north of Cabo San Lucas on the Pacific side....windier at times yes, but cooler than the Sea of Cortez side when things heat up in summer.

Plus western sunsets.

When our World Financial Order returns to normal, this area is where things will be happening.

There is a little stretch here in the corridor that might be somewhat hapoenning as well

[paul cowley]

Tell me more....I'm assuming Lucky's starts after Mex business time.

[JWL]

Paul

Allow me to add my congratulations to your course opening.   I know the challenges you faced and I know you are proud and happy to finally see your finished product.   I hope to get over to see your course...and maybe even play...if I can get GT out of his office, and maybe even find you hanging around while I am there on one of my upcoming visits to Cabo.

I have heard nothing but outstanding reports and the pics I have seen are fantastic.

Well done!

JWL

. 

[paul cowley]

JWL

Thank you Jim...it means a lot to us coming from one of the pioneers of golf in Cabo, and who's work more than any put Cabo on the map as a resort destination.

I'd enjoy joining you and Greg...might even break the clubs out!

Paul

[Greg Tallman]

  . . .    I hope it's a great success and paves the way for more courses of the same ilk.

The land beyond looks excellent for another golf course with closer hole locations to the ocean and less "natural" topdressing issues.

Could this be the kernel of . . .    Mexi-Bandon?  

Not if the current development plans are adhered to which admittedly is highly unlikely. The routing for the course at the adjacent development was central florida at its best with ntohing near the beach/ocean but hey... buy a front row home and you get a Rolls Royce in the garage!!! I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that will not happen.

The course was to be a David Kidd design and I am surprised that he had agreed to do the course given the routing he was obviously handed by a greedy land planner.

[Greg Tallman]

JWL

Thank you Jim...it means a lot to us coming from one of the pioneers of golf in Cabo, and who's work more than any put Cabo on the map as a resort destination.

I'd enjoy joining you and Greg...might even break the clubs out!

Paul

That is some serious pressure gentlemen. I suppose I should begin inquiring as to the whereabouts of my golfing sticks. By the way I will NOT be playing hole 10 from the back markers!

FYI - I believe the poker deal starts around 7:00 at Lucky's. I am never able to make it that early and the real entertainment is on Tuesday evenings at Nowhere Bar. The Diamante crew can elaborate on the virtues of a Tuesday at Nowhere.

Señor Lipe - I take it you will be attending the WVU-LSU game next year in Baton Rouge. I will be staying at Stayview Suites which was suggested by a couple of Tiger fans I met here a couple of weeks ago. Perhpas we can play your University Club that morning(assume it will be a night game on ESPN)? When are you headed back this way? Saw José Luis the other evening and said things were not quite in place at Quivira but were getting close. 

[JWL]

Greg
I am not familiar with the Suites you referred to, but yes I will be at the game, and will gladly show you what tailgating is all about, if you are interested.
No trip to Cabo planned, but waiting for JLuis to make some final decisions....hopefully soon.....with the weather starting to turn, I will need a Cabo weather fix soon.
The University Club will be embarking on a major renovation starting Dec 1 this year and hopefully, if all goes well, we will have it back open in great shape by Sept 1, 2010....so yes, we can plan to play that Sat morning of the game if you wish.
Cheers to you and Paul....can't wait to get down their again, with Diamante now open.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg
I am not familiar with the Suites you referred to, but yes I will be at the game, and will gladly show you what tailgating is all about, if you are interested.
No trip to Cabo planned, but waiting for JLuis to make some final decisions....hopefully soon.....with the weather starting to turn, I will need a Cabo weather fix soon.
The University Club will be embarking on a major renovation starting Dec 1 this year and hopefully, if all goes well, we will have it back open in great shape by Sept 1, 2010....so yes, we can plan to play that Sat morning of the game if you wish.
Cheers to you and Paul....can't wait to get down their again, with Diamante now open.

Sorry Jim, it is Staybridge Suites on Nicholson Dr. These guys said it was a great 3/4 mile walk through tailgate heaven to the stadium. Can't imagine it being much better than a Saturday night in Death Valley unless that is a LATE Saturday night in Baton Rouge after a big WV victory!

Would love to see University Club on the morning of the game... if I start looking now I am sure I can find my clubs.

I may actually break down and play at Diamante on Thursday... if so I will try to pen a detailed account of the experience, that is if all the free tequila does not impair my abilities too much.

Hope the Pacific Q gets on track soon... would be nice for that to open as the initial fanfare of Diamante starts to wane. Now if we can just get the course along the cliffs open to the public!!!


Cheers and hope to see you down this way soon.

[Lou_Duran]

Wow!  What a great looking course!  I don't remember how windy the Los Cabos area is, but could sand erosion cover up substantial parts of the golf course?  Is that something one has to fight on a daily basis?  How is it done?

I've seen a course in El Paso (Painted Dunes, I think) which was having some budget problems at that time, and the desert was reclaiming parts of the playing areas.

[Carl Nichols]

Paul:
Congrats; it looks spectacular.  If this question has been answered before, my apologies, but what's the model for the course -- fully private, mostly private with some access from high-end resorts, fully resort, something else? 
Congrats again,
Carl

[Greg Tallman]

Paul:
Congrats; it looks spectacular.  If this question has been answered before, my apologies, but what's the model for the course -- fully private, mostly private with some access from high-end resorts, fully resort, something else? 
Congrats again,
Carl

Carl,

As with any new or unfinished development I don't think anyone is crazy enough to put themselves in a box these days. That is to say that anything could happen.

Originally had not intended to open to the public. I have been in their ear forever urging them to open it up. Unfortunately the economic colla´pse got me my wish. They are wroking with 6-8 of the nicer hotel properties in the area (One & Only, Las Ventanas, Esperanza, Capella... and others) and taking a max of I believe 80 player per day for the forseeable future. 

I am also able to make introductons for groups to access the facilty and woul be happy to do so for those not staying at one of the hotels with which they are working.

Longer term I believe what will happen is:

Luxury Hotel on site (not on top of the course)
Love course remians open to outside play (probably similar to setup now... nicer hotels & professional intros)
Mickelson course would be private
Sports facilities are planned (baseball diamond, training facilities.... etc)

Again I have no affiliation with the project... but being involved in a high end resort development in the same area it is my job to undertsand their model and from what I can see that is where they are headed or will end up at due to market conditions.

[Greg Tallman]

Well, I finally dusted off the clubs and actually played golf... well "played" may be a bit of an overstatement.
 
Due to the extreme wind possibilities and the obvious design around this fact the daily setup is of paramount importance. If it becomes the typical move the tee markes a few feet from day to day much of the genius of Paul and Davis will be lost. Knowing the players involved I trust this will not happen. Mike, Erik and crew for lack of a better term "get it" unlike many in the business.

Arrival area with fireplace



You start at the driving range which is as cool and unique in design and atmosphere as I have seen. Four coves or bays that accommodate a foursome are cut out of the hillside and supported by massive rock walls. If you are hungry... you are offered Kobe beef sliders and any drink of choice.




Almost forgot the presence of music at the range... yesterday i was warming up to Aerosmith and Pink Floyd though I'm told the owner's favorite (AC/DC) plays earlier in the morning... my kinda range!

Gimmicky and over the top? Yes
Cool and unique? Absolutely - Some will love it and talk about it forever though I suspect many here will greet it with rolled eyes. I love it.

#1 - 550ish yard par 5
I was late but it is a longish par five set below the massive super dune. One local pro was able to record a tidy 3 as we played with very little wind yestaerday which WILL NOT be the norm. Tons of room to hit the tee shot and approach. Cool green complex but then again almost all are at Diamante.

#2 - 229 yar par 3
Skipped this one as well...  plays downhill, downwind and has probably the coolest green on the property which is saying something!


#3 - 425ish yard par 4
Skipped this one as well - Geez how late can one be? Into the wind and uphill this hole is a tough approach shot that cab roll well back down the hill if short. Only critique that will become somewhat of a theme is that the undualtion of the fairways is very random and does not provide much in the way of preferred line of play. Perhpas this critique is actually a compliment?

COMFORT STATION #1 - Some Soup For You! Spicy balck bean soup... awesome and perfect with pomegranite tequila. I went light with apple slices and peanut butter. Love the concept, purists may hate it.

#4 - Short par 4 - 375ish???
HEY HE MADE IT WELCOME TO THE PARTY. Would be better if 30 yards longer or 20 yards shorter. Safe play is an iron or FW wood to the left of this semi split fairway. Longer hitters can try to drive it with favorable wind conidtions but with none it was 3-wood, wedge. the approach is completely blind unless you take the aggressive route straight at the green... I will take the blind wedge as it appears that most that take the aggressive route will be left with an steep uphill pitch that provides more of a challenge than the blind wedge.


#5 - 154 yard par 3
Wait, I said #2 was the coolest green on the course? Hmmmmmm. The green and wind are the only defenses here and they are more than enough. Pin placement yesterday allowed playingpartner to blade/skull/shank a 7-iron that rolled through the green only to funnel back down to about 10 feet while my relatively well struck (OK, for me it was pure!) shot funneled away from the hole and left a tricky 2 putt par.

#6 - 475 yard par 5
Deception from the tee. Looks as though left is dead and the fairway is a sliver... actually far more room left than it appears but not the preferred line on this obviously reachable (even for me) par 5. Defense here comes on the second shot whcih is very tight and pinched by massive dunes on either side... probably 35 yards of playing area between which was about 3 yards too narrow for my second! Given the rest of the putting surfaces on the course I was disappointed in this green for a short par 5... plenty of movement but not as interesting as the others.


REVISIT COMFORT STATION #1

#7 - 305 yard par 3 YES THREE!
Straight up... don't like it. Sorry Paul but I would lay money you will revisit the fronting surrounds. Why the mounds? Just think it needs mellowed out in front. Heck I made 3 but just don't get it. No bail out. At the least the left should be mellowed and truly invite the run up. Anyone have the high soft driver down wind to stop it in the green shot? In fairness to Paul the green has a sort of back stop that retains shots but with a 30 MPH wind not uncommon... MUST have the run up option which it does not. The same blading/skulling/shanking playing companion manged to use the green contour to hit it about 10 feet here as well... he made 4! Pretty wild green for a 305 yard par 3... but the wildness, at least in part, was meant to soften the severity of the hole IMO.  

#8 - 374 yard par 4
Pretty cool hole all around here. One of 3 or 4 "non-dune" holes. Nothing flashy, more SUPPOSED options than really are. I guess someone of Davis' skill and length could potentially drive the hole as it will normally be straight downwind and even one of modest length like me (I am being kind!) can opt to play left and get a look at the green versus play to the super wide right side and have a partially blind uphill approach. Another really cool green with the back third lower than the rest. If the pin were back I would consider the more risky carry to the left to set up a far easier approach. Given a middle pin yesterday the right side was the prudent play (especially considering I had no idea where the ball was going)

#9 - 484 yard par 4... put you seat belts on folks it gets interesting from here on!
Straight downwind to a shelf green cut into the side of a massive dune. PLenty of driving area (maybe 60 yards wide?) but somehow I find a FW bunker! Green has a... hmmm not sure how to characterize this as false front would not do it justice. OK putting green height grass ski slope for the first 30 feet of the green. Far more severe than 14 at ANGC. Davis' cousin cursed him a few times on this hole yesterday! Ball back to your feet...? Think again, try 20 yards behind you if you don't get it past the doble diamante negro slope. 4 is a wonderful score here... but even better at the next!
From the tee...


The approach... the fronting swale is now mowed at putting green height as noted above



HALFWAY HOUSE - hotdogs, lamb, shrimp... etc. Oh, and the everpresent open bar.


More to come and pics will be added

[Greg Tallman]

#10 - 568 par 4
Never stood on a tee of a par 4 knowing I could not reach the green in 2. Now I have. With little wind behind I simply could not get home in 2. Nobody in our group could. Of note is the change to the bunkering as it appears in the photo in the other Diamante thread. Rather than the original traditional style bunker that was up the right side they have made this much more of the natural dune look and it is a great improveemnt in my eyes. The tee shot plays sharply downhill and normally downwind but into an upslope so the effects are somewhat negated. Driver, 3-wood, 50 yard pitch... At least the green offers the chance to make a putt.




COMFORT STATION #2 - Tequila Shots anyone, licorice? Nuts? Candy? Beer? Apple Slices? Jelly Beans?

[Forrest Richardson]

Looks great. I am familiar with this terrain — as to the question of whether you would ever have to topdress: Mother nature will take care of that, trust me. At Links at las Palomas we get monthly "top dressing" despite 5 miles of sand fence and a continual battle to establish new dunes. Better after a few years, but still at the mercy of the winds.

Congrats to Pauly. Let us hope he wears his kilt after dark.  

[Alex Miller]

So there's a 475 yard Par 5 and a 568 yard par 4? WOW!

[paul cowley]

Greg.....I'm concerned you never made it past the tequila shots at Comfort Station #2, as I was enjoying your critique.

You will eventually be pleased with the mounds on #7....sometimes baby steps are required convincing others.
On a 305 yd par three one really doesn't need the additional challenge of having an unplayable lie within 5 or so yds of the green.
Easy fix though.....like many that will be made in the coming year.

Btw....when describing #7's green, I think you substituted 'wildest', when you really meant 'mildest'....and yes, it was meant to be that way.

#7 is perhaps our most natural hole. Outside of building the tees, very little was done to the greens complex except adding irrigation.
Most people will discover that this is a hole where it is better to take an extra club and be long, in order to take advantage of the large back slope behind the green.

#17 employs a similar strategy.

Reducing the number of lost balls on the course by creating open sandy areas has been my highest priority.....but the time and the construction personnel to do so has always been a factor.
Bill Osterhoudt, the superintendent, has done a remarkable job getting the course to where it is today, and has even had to finish the bulk of these construction details.

We will get there though.....faster if one can avoid the Comfort Stations!




Thanks Forrest.

[Greg Tallman]

Greg.....I'm concerned you never made it past the tequila shots at Comfort Station #2, as I was enjoying your critique.

You will eventually be pleased with the mounds on #7....sometimes baby steps are required convincing others.
On a 305 yd par three one really doesn't need the additional challenge of having an unplayable lie within 5 or so yds of the green.
Easy fix though.....like many that will be made in the coming year.

Btw....when describing #7's green, I think you substituted 'wildest', when you really meant 'mildest'....and yes, it was meant to be that way.

#7 is perhaps our most natural hole. Outside of building the tees, very little was done to the greens complex except adding irrigation.
Most people will discover that this is a hole where it is better to take an extra club and be long, in order to take advantage of the large back slope behind the green.

#17 employs a similar strategy.

Reducing the number of lost balls on the course by creating open sandy areas has been my highest priority.....but the time and the construction personnel to do so has always been a factor.
Bill Osterhoudt, the superintendent, has done a remarkable job getting the course to where it is today, and has even had to finish the bulk of these construction details.

We will get there though.....faster if one can avoid the Comfort Stations!




Thanks Forrest.

Sorry Paul, I got busy and have had to abandon the review (not critique!   ). Will try to finish it off and include pics tonight from home. We will have to disagree on 7 thus far.

By the way green speeds were probably 9 to 9.5 and were pretty much perfect for that type of contouring. You had to be aware of what was going on but nothing silly. If they were to roll 10.5 to 11... it could get a bit dicey.

FYI - Nary a drink taken at the comfort stations (I struggle enough with my game these days without introiducing coordination hampering substances into the mix). Pretty grils at the stations may cause delay as well!  

I was surprised at the inability to find the balls that were only a few feet off the turf... pretty delicate balance in stabilizing the dunes versus being able to find and/or play your ball. As it is now that stuff is flat out nasty. As noted I visited the junk on #6.

[Mac Plumart]

Well, I must say the pictures of this course are completely stunning.  Congratulations to all of those involved!

I was starring dumbfounded at the pictures of the course on my computer screen when my 7 year old daughter said "Wow, that course certainly is a sight!"; then she added "there are a lot of sand traps on that course!"

The fact that the courses beauty captivated a 7 year old who could care less about golf, really says something about its allure.

Nice work!

[Greg Tallman]

#11 - 209 yard par 3
Dramatic uphill par 3. Massive bunker on left side of green (15 feet deep??). One of the highest points, if not the highest point, on the course. Amazing view of the dunes to the sea which must be 3/4 miles away. Hole played 215 this day with a ghint of a tail wind. green is a bit more sibtle than the rest thigh a back right pin could be among the least accessible on the course. Dunes and smallish bunker guard front right thigh I wouldn't mind seeing the bunker turned into approach allowing for some form of ground approach here as with the normal wind conidtion such might be the prudent play. That suggestion is not born from the fact that I was in this bunker but just being a little picky on a pretty awesome golf hole. By the way Paul... want to show you the putt I had and ask you to show me how on earth this ball breaks right... I was playing for 12 inches of break... TO THE LEFT!!!!
From the tee


Looking back from behind the green



#12 - 592 yard par 5  
Downhill tee shot to a generous landing area that will be necessary under normal, windy conditions as the wind will be coming out of the left and across the "lagoon" at which you will need to aim the tee shot.  Second is deceiving and depndent of how far down you get the tee ball. Less than stellar tee ball will lengthen this hole considerable more than the yardage lost from the tee as you will then have to play wide of the cross bunker which will add considerable distance to the approach. Different gren here with a massive swale in the middle right area of the green creting a variety of issues for you approach. Pin was just beyond the center of the swale near the middle of the green which may actually be the most interesting placement here. My approach came up 35-40 feet short driectly on line and I was left a putt that, if I wanted to make it, would have to flirt with the swale... When struck I thought the putt may be headed to the bottom of the swale but it barely stayed up and somehow found the bottom of the hole so a couple of inches was the difference between 4 and perhaps a 7 and this is only considering the green itself.

#13 - 425 yard par 4
Plays back up the other side of the lagoon which in reality is not really brought into the strategy of the hole as for my money the best play is wide to the right probably 80 yards away from the lagoon from where you have the best angle to attack another green benched into the side of the hillside. Least favorite green complex on the course... a little out of character for the rest of the course with its raised and and beched characteristics... why not 30 yards down and left against the lagoon with plenty of bailout right and more run up options... seemingly the more natural location for the green and more in keeping with a linksy type feel and playing characteristics? Again very picky but just expressing thoughts after my first play.

#14 - 600 yard par 5
Brutal. Bit of wind picked up here and tee shot, while straight down the middle was hard against the large mounding that separate the lower right half and the upper left shelf fairway. From the back tee and in virtually any wind only the longest players would have the option to play left and as narrow as it is it would likely be more of a "hit it down the spine and hope it falls a bit left" versus truly challenging the dunes the run the length up the left. the mounding is as such that I did not feel comfortable trying to get a FW wood up quick enough and opted to try to hit a huge hook with a long iron as any less club would leave a FW wood approach. Portion of the dune that was cut out to soften the difficulty of the second was out of reach from my tee shot and after not enough hook had to hack out to 110 yards and play 4th into the green. Playing companion (Davis' cousin) hit solid drive and solid 3-wood but also came up short of the widened area for the second. For the record the widened area is now proabably 45 yards wide versus 25 before when the dunes along each side choked the hole into a bottle neck. I guess the lesson learned here... play a different set of tees! Still made 5 however.

Pic from atop the dune well in front of the back tee


Pic from atop another dune right of the second landing area showing green and area where fairway was added left (dune in this pic)


#15 - 390? yard par 4
Really cool hole. Massive fairway literally 100 yards wide thought the area to the right is not preferred but allows you to find the ball and gives a chance, albeit it a tough one, for your approach. Green complex is flatish with surrounding natural areas, not riased dunes but undisturbed natural sand and native veghetation area. Pretty intimidating shot but the green size allows for a less than perfect shot to find the green and then battle for a 2-putt par. Impressive, fair, intimidating and interesting. Really cool golf hole.

Good sense of the width of the fairway


Preferred line of approach


A bit better sense of the closeness of the native areas surround in the green


#16 - 160 yard par 3
Another shortish par 3 with the green making you hit a solid approach in order to find a chance at birdie or even a realistic 2 putt. The middle right pin was inviting enough put the shot pulled some 25 feet left riode the winds and the green contour leaving a 60 footer up the green with the hole some 6-7 feet above the level from which the putt would be struck. Slope from right to left on the top right shelf is subtle yet considerable as playing companion just off right edge struck what appeared to be a decent pitch only to watch as the ball rolled some 25 feet past the hole stopping only a foot or two from finding the transitional slope and ending up along side the tee shot of your truly. THis hole will be a blast in the normal wind conditions... I can see some 3 irons from 155 here come January and February.

Pic of 16 green from well right of the tee area


#17 - 580ish yard par 5
Hit it about 60 yards left of where your eye takes you!!! I hit what I assumed was perfect only to have Davis' cousin give it the ole "oh no!" WHAT? Well he was right, missed carrying the natural sandy expanse by a few yards. Really really hard to make yourself hit it far enough left here. Hard to explain, looks like you hitting into the side of another dune but trust me that is the line. The second gives a similar but less confusing feel you again carry what one would have to call a cross dune, though this si not that intimidating as there is fairway both above and below. This hole has undergone the most noticeable changes as grass has been introduced in a low lying area that before required a carry of some 120 yards the natural sandy area to a green set high above half way up the super dune. the new grass gives the option of playing a longer second shot and thus a more manageable approach to the green some 40 feet(??) above the fiarway. The green complex's major characteristic ie rentention and the raised green and downwind condition will make it hard to stop anything more than the shortest of irons. Precision on three consecutive shots is required, tough par 5.

Pic from a froward tee... back tee would com on from top left of the pick without the view of the sliver of fariway seen in this pic


Pic looking back from the top of dune behind the green


From behind and right... get some sense of how far above fairway the green is



#18 - 450ish yard par 4
Bit of a bite off as much as you wish tee shot dogleg left. around a deep wash(natural or man made?) that cuts through the dune with the final fairway playing along the top of the dune before plunging to its base for the approach. The most amazing cactus you will see anywhere sets along the right of the fairway soem 80 yards shot of the green. Approach could honestly by putted from 150 yards as the fiarway falls sharply to a green the falls away on the front half before giving way to the typical wavy wild green that is the norm at Diamante.  

Approach to 18 with the incredible cactus on the right



Wonderful golf course with the experience made all the better by the staff and over the top aspects introduced by Mike, Erik et al. Kudos to all involved and would love to come back again Thursday but the choice between second round of golf in 8 days or flying to see my West Virginia Mountaineers play? Football takes the priority here. See you soon enough.


PS - will try to insert accompanying photos from home this evening.

  

[Andrew Mitchell]

Just adding my congrats to you Paul and your team, the course looks absolutely stunning!