[Anthony Gray]

How many blind shots does The National have? How mant where you cannot see where your ball ends up? Isn't there a famous CBM quote on blind shots?

Anthony

I don't understand why you're asking this. Didn't you play there a few weeks ago? 

What do you think?  Did you have the impression there were too many blind shots?

Maybe he was wearing sunglasses and it was a cloudy day.   

There are very cool blind shots such as the approach to #17 from the right side where all you can see is the very top of the flag stick.

  Bill,

 If that was where my drive ended I would wear a dress when I played.

  Anthony

 

[Bill_McBride]

Awesome golf porn.

Now that's funny...Mr. Lavin's comment just under that ass pic of Mr. McBride on the Leven.

That ain't me, no way my ass is that big!            

[Jay Flemma]

I didn't think there were too many blind shots!  I LOVE blind shots.

[Anthony Gray]

  Ben Hogan sais that a blind shot is only blind once, but in generel the player wants to watch where his ball goes.

  Anthony

[Ash Towe]

Philip,
Thanks for the photo tour.  This and the Shinnie tour have certainley given a great perspective on 2 US masterpieces.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ben Hogan sais that a blind shot is only blind once, but in generel the player wants to watch where his ball goes.

I think Hogan was wrong on that, a blind shot is a blind shot every time you play it.
You may have a general feel/recollection of what lies beyond, but the spacial relationships differ significantly.
The uniqueness of the day's hole location and your ball's location combine to make the golfer uncomfortable.

The unique thing about NGLA is that it's often the mis-played or mis-judged shot that ends up blind.
It's a subtle penalty at NGLA on most of the holes.

Take # 1.
I aim at the left corner of the fairway bunker and try to hit a slight draw with my driver.
If I'm successful, I'm right in front of the green with everything visible.
If I draw it too much, I'm still OK, although the tendency is to avoid a hook on the tee shot.
If I hit it straight, into the bunker, or right of the bunker, I have a blind approach shot, albeit one of only 80 or so yards.

The same thing happens at # 2.
Hit it straight and you can see every part of the green.
Hit it left or right and you're left with a blind approach.

Same with # 5.

# 7 and # 10 offer the same concept on the drive.

On # 11, hit it too far and you're blind.
Hit it to the ideal position and everythings' visible.

On # 14, hit it straight and everything's visible.
Hit it left and your blind.

Same on # 15.

# 16, hit it straight and you can see just about everything.
Hit it left or right and you're blind.

# 17 and # 18 offer variations of the above.

Hence, blindness at NGLA, other than at # 3, is determined by how the golfer plans and/or executes his shots.
It's not a universal, it's a variable, and I think that's a major distinction.  

  Anthony

[TEPaul]

Hey Patrick, you just went to soft pink. What the hell is going on with you pal? Is there something I should know before we get together again? Are you trying to get in touch with your femine side today for some reason or some such?

[Mike Bowline]

Philip: awesome photos. Wow, what a beautiful day you were blessed with!

How playable is the native rough? In the photos, it looks like you could at least find your ball. Can you play out of it? Not that you were ever in it, but I am sure somebody has been once or twice.

[JMEvensky]

Hey Patrick, you just went to soft pink. What the hell is going on with you pal? Is there something I should know before we get together again?

Either his homage to Breast Cancer Awareness month or he's broken the other fonts through overuse.

BTW-how can Mucci opine on any hole past 7?He's been stuck on that tee box for 6 months in his enchanted journey.

[TEPaul]

"How many blind shots does The National have? How mant where you cannot see where your ball ends up? Isn't there a famous CBM quote on blind shots?"


Anthony:

Do you want my opinion on the reasons for the differences between what most all those Old Dead Guys said about blind shots compared to what they actually built?

I warn you, if you want my opinion on that it's gonna be pretty raw! 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hey Patrick, you just went to soft pink. What the hell is going on with you pal? Is there something I should know before we get together again?

Either his homage to Breast Cancer Awareness month or he's broken the other fonts through overuse.
When I click on "green" it prints out as "pink"

Please ask TEPaul, what's a "femine" side ?

BTW-how can Mucci opine on any hole past 7?He's been stuck on that tee box for 6 months in his enchanted journey.
I like the view from there and can't get past it.
I'm also waiting to have the new back tee installed on # 7, bringing the "road hole hotel bunker complex" back into play on the drive.

I should continue sometime in the next week or so.

[Philip Gawith]

Pat, why do you think CBM introduced so much blindness at NGLA? The only other course of his I have played is The Creek where there is certainly a fair bit, but less so.

 I am sure i am going to show my ignorance but there can't be many courses of this stature where blindness plays such a big role (although having said this, it was not one of the main recollections I took away from the course). I suppose it was in signfiicant part derived from what he saw, and valued in the UK - though I am not sure I can think of a UK course today where blindness is such a big feature. Maybe Royal St George's years ago, but no longer.

Unrelated, when did they cut down all the trees? When you look at the photos in George Bahto's book that is one of the most striking differences. To my mind the course looks so much better without them.

[Philip Gawith]

Mike, you can find and play the ball in the rough. On a relatively benign day you ought not to be there too may times since there really is quite a lot of width off the tee on a lot of the holes. The course has many features - I don't think the rough is really one of them, for which we give thanks!

[TEPaul]

Jeff:

The femine side is the feminine side that is pretty seriously mispelt. Sort of like what Pat goes through trying to figure out how to get there hisself!

By the way, Patrick thinks he is one of the best in the world at truly understanding the female mentality and in many ways that appears to be true. But I think what Patrick understands about females is what some damn clever females want someone like HIM to think THEY think!

In truth, females are no different than cats---they are almost completely inscrutable except to other women. I've never actually tried to ask any cats how well they think they understand women.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, why do you think CBM introduced so much blindness at NGLA? The only other course of his I have played is The Creek where there is certainly a fair bit, but less so.

Philip,

I believe for the following two reasons.
1.   he had studied extensively in the UK and I believe imported the element of blindness, thinking it was desirable.
2.   The topography at NGLA almost begged for blindness in certain locations, # 2 being the most obvious

The site at The Creek really doesn't encourage blindness, with only # 15 having the potential for it.

I am sure i am going to show my ignorance but there can't be many courses of this stature where blindness plays such a big role (although having said this, it was not one of the main recollections I took away from the course).

Don't forget, we're examining "blindness" at NGLA, not as the golfer is likely to see it during the course of his round, but, in the totality of the blindness that's in the entire site..

It's probably not one of your recollections because you didn't interface with all of the potential blindness, only some random blindness..

I suppose it was in signfiicant part derived from what he saw, and valued in the UK - though I am not sure I can think of a UK course today where blindness is such a big feature. Maybe Royal St George's years ago, but no longer.

Unrelated, when did they cut down all the trees?


Winter 2004

When you look at the photos in George Bahto's book that is one of the most striking differences.
To my mind the course looks so much better without them.

I think you'll get almost universal agreement on that.

[Bill_McBride]

Philip, if you hit that hybrid of yours off the tee all day, about 250 yards dead straight, you wouldn't encounter as much blindness as shorter, more crooked players do.  See Pat Mucci's analysis above of where straight shots see the targets, where off line tee shots or approaches create blind shots.

[Mike Salinetti]

These pics of NGLA are the best I have ever seen. Hats off to my cousin Bill for making it look like that.

Mike Salinetti
Golf Course Superintendent
Berkshire Hills Country Club
Pittsfield, MA

[Philip Gawith]

Thanks Pat, I take your point that there is more blindness around the course than any golfer will experience on any one visit.

Bill - don't you worry, i experience blindness ok an there are witnesses who will testify as to my less than linear route round the course! I am still lamenting my great drive on the second that went whistling threw the green, unseen by the caddie! And on 16 I hit what i thought was a beautiful drive about two yards right of my partner - he stayed on top with easy shot in, i was down in the dungeons on the right with an altogehter daunting approach!

Mike - cousin Bill is doing a very fine job!

[Bradley Anderson]

These pictures are amazing. Wow what a place.

I think I like the Leven hole much more without all the tall grass that was growing in the bunkers.

I went back and looked at these after Patrick's comment about blindness. It looks like there are indeed many places where the ball can roll behind objects that block your view of the target.

I never realized how much pitch there was to that fifth green.

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks Pat, I take your point that there is more blindness around the course than any golfer will experience on any one visit.

Bill - don't you worry, i experience blindness ok an there are witnesses who will testify as to my less than linear route round the course! I am still lamenting my great drive on the second that went whistling threw the green, unseen by the caddie! And on 16 I hit what i thought was a beautiful drive about two yards right of my partner - he stayed on top with easy shot in, i was down in the dungeons on the right with an altogehter daunting approach!

It's been a couple of years since my day at NGLA but I'm wondering --- if you took the best nine from Sandwich and the best nine from Deal, the "eclectic," it might have as much interest as NGLA!  Blind, firm, fun, fast...........

[TEPaul]

PhilipG:

Who took all the photos on page 1? I'm assuming it was you of course. The reason I mention it is there is one shot in there that is absolutely dynamite (that wasn't even possible a few years ago) that I can hardly believe is true the way you describe where it was shot from. Not just that but it shows a perspective of that hole that leads totally to its remarkable strategic playability particularly with real F&F conditions!

[Patrick_Mucci]

There's another element of the blindness that I forgot to mention.

A good deal of the blindness gets encountered on errant shots, but, some, if not most of those errant shots are left with rather short approaches or recoveries.

# 1 and # 2 are perfect examples.
Hit your drive to a blind spot and you only have a sand wedge or lob wedge for your approach shot.
The same holds true on # 17, hit it behind the dune and you have a wedge, Sand or Lob shot into a fairly spacious green.

Even if you hit your drive into one of the bowls flanking the center line spine, the punchbowl green compensates for off line approaches rather nicely.

So, the blindness at NGLA isn't as onerous as the name/concept implies.

[Philip Gawith]

Tom P - yes indeed, I took the photos. I wonder if you are referring to the distant shot of the Redan hole which is quite revealing in terms fo  how it shows the angle of the green? I am pretty sure it was taken from near the 2nd green (either on it or just below it).

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