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JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2009, 04:24:16 AM »
These are great pictures.  I appreciate how the photos show some views of the golf course that are different from the usual shots.  I particularly liked the side view of the Redan 4th.  This hole always looks damn near impossible from the tee.  This visual makes me think that there is actually a fair amount of room around the green.  The view of the 5th green was also tremendous.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2009, 12:04:32 PM »
Well done, John !! Did you take a shot from 17 tee looking back at Shinnecock's clubhouse ? The back tee on 17 is my favorite spot in the world BY FAR.

PATRICK MUCCI, WHERE ARE YOU ??...... We look forward to your learned commentary of these marvelous photos !!


I got in at 3:00 am last night, am now off to hit balls, then watch my son's football team, but, I will continue my descriptions this week.

Thanks for asking.

John Mayhugh,

Sometime after I complete my description of each hole, I'll try to craft a "NGLA" thread where I take the description of each hole and match it with Philip's and other pictures of each hole so that there's an album of sorts accompanied by descriptions.

Part of the problem with pictures is their inability to capture green contouring and elevation changes, especially around the greens, but, I'll do my best.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 12:09:54 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2009, 12:11:57 PM »
...
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2009, 12:14:20 PM »
Philip,

Words can't describe how jelous I am of anyone who gets to play there or how awesome The National looks in your photos... Hence my previous post, I was speechless  ;D

Many, many thanks!!!

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2009, 02:19:24 PM »
Thanks James, I consider myself blessed to have played there, and received a lucky turn with the weather.

I am delighted Pat that you will continue your efforts to tell us in words what the course is all about. You are right that pictures are very incomplete - they can show quite a lot, but certainly not all, and maybe we should be thankful that some of the mysteries require first-hand inspection! I hope my pictures can bring alive some of the sheer physical splendour of the course, even if they remain silent on many of the subtleties.

Anthony Gray

Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2009, 02:42:31 PM »


  How many blind shots does The National have? How mant where you cannot see where your ball ends up? Isn't there a famous CBM quote on blind shots?

  Anthony

 

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2009, 03:29:20 PM »
Anthony, from memory:

- the drive and approach on 1
- drive on 2
- approach to 3
- drive on 5
- drive on 7
- drive on 11/12 - not sure
- drive on 16, approach to 16.
- approach to 17 from some angles
- approach to 18.

If anything the list is a little longer....

Anthony Gray

Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2009, 05:00:09 PM »
Anthony, from memory:

- the drive and approach on 1
- drive on 2
- approach to 3
- drive on 5
- drive on 7
- drive on 11/12 - not sure
- drive on 16, approach to 16.
- approach to 17 from some angles
- approach to 18.

If anything the list is a little longer....

  Is this a negative?

  Anthony


Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2009, 06:13:52 PM »
For some people yes, not for me. Depends what you are looking for I suppose. For you?

Lyne Morrison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2009, 06:45:45 PM »

Philip - I would like to add my thanks also.

Patrick - good news - look forward to your commentary.

Cheers

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2009, 07:14:54 PM »
Eric Smith - you said:


Bahto's book is REALLY good.. ......... thank you ...............but it doesn't have pics like these...WOW!!

Eric, when I first began research at National for the book, no one was allowed to photograph anything at National. I heard they used to ask players who were there for outings if they had a camera in their bag,

My book was supposed to be some sort of a text-book - defining, as best I could, the strategies of the holes (among other things). I also did not want it to be a coffee table book full of beautiful, professional  pictures.

I had to get permission to take pictures in the beginning - I guess they’ve totally given it up now (hah).

The Evangelist of Golf was ordinally have all the Raynor and Banks courses in it but I rebelled because it would have been too big, the graphics and course descriptions would have been too cut down.

So the publisher came to my home, looked at all the material I had, called me two days later suggesting we do three books: the present Evangelist of Golf book, a book about the rest of the courses (Raynor book) and because I have so much material on the National, a book on the National as well.
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2009, 07:17:29 PM »
Quote
George_Bahto
The Evangelist of Golf was  to originally have all the Raynor and Banks courses in it but I rebelled because it would have been too big, the graphics and course descriptions would have been too cut down.

So the publisher came to my home, looked at all the material I had, called me two days later suggesting we do three books: the present Evangelist of Golf book, a book about the rest of the courses (Raynor book) and because I have so much material on the National, a book on the National as well.


Well?   ;D
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2009, 07:21:33 PM »
George

please know that I regard your book as the favorite in my collection, having purchased it very soon after it was published, just a superb book.  These pics are a great supplement to the book. 

Thanks for all you continue to do in the world of golf architecture.

Eric

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2009, 07:24:52 PM »
well - I'm having too much fun working courses and such!!!     writing is a struggle for me .....  (I promise to get it done) - it's too good a story and actually the Raynor book information was what started all this for me - getting the virtually little-known Raynor story out there.  The Raynor research led me to the Macdonald story, of course.

I thought you were coming down here Kennedy?
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2009, 07:26:26 PM »
Eric, again thanks - I didn't mean any disrespect or dissing
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2009, 07:34:44 PM »
George,
A couple more weeks and the course will be closed for the season, expect a call.  ;D
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2009, 08:45:38 PM »
Anthony, from memory:

- the drive and approach on 1
- drive on 2                                      You can add the approach if your drive isn't perfect
- approach to 3
- drive on 5                                       2nd on # 5
- drive on 7                                       2nd on # 7  and 3rd on # 7 if you go long
                                                       Recovery on # 8
                                                       2nd on # 9
- drive on 11/12 - not sure                  Drive on # 11, 2nd on # 11
                                                       Drive on # 12
                                                       second on # 14
                                                       Second on # 15
- drive on 16, approach to 16.
- approach to 17 from some angles
                                                       Second on # 18
- approach to 18.

If anything the list is a little longer....

                                                      You could list a lot of recovery shots too

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2009, 09:46:46 PM »
John Mayhugh,

Sometime after I complete my description of each hole, I'll try to craft a "NGLA" thread where I take the description of each hole and match it with Philip's and other pictures of each hole so that there's an album of sorts accompanied by descriptions.

Part of the problem with pictures is their inability to capture green contouring and elevation changes, especially around the greens, but, I'll do my best.[/b][/size][/color]

I'm glad to contribute photos as I did with the first six holes.  If you like, I can give you access to link to them directly and you can insert them wherever you like. Or I'll just add them to you text. 

It no doubt takes a great deal of time to describe the holes and playing of them as well as you did in the earlier threads.  I really appreciate your willingness to share your experiences and will do anything I can to help with it.

You're right that photos are inadequate at showing the green contours.  Would be great if they did as that's maybe the best part of the course.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2009, 09:49:45 PM »
How many blind shots does The National have? How mant where you cannot see where your ball ends up? Isn't there a famous CBM quote on blind shots?

Anthony

I don't understand why you're asking this. Didn't you play there a few weeks ago? 

What do you think?  Did you have the impression there were too many blind shots?

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2009, 09:54:28 PM »
George
Please know that I regard your book as the favorite in my collection, having purchased it very soon after it was published, just a superb book. 

I'm in 100% agreement with Eric.   My favorite golf book by far. 

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2009, 11:27:59 PM »
In passing, I also wondered in the Shinnecock thread about where else you could find comparable quality golf, side by side, and suggested possibly Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath. I am not sure how many people are in a position to comment _ Mike Clayton said to me in an IM that he felt Royal Melbourne was certainly comparable on the golf front and Kingston Heath scored maybe highest of all in terms of what the architect got from a small piece of ground. My own view would be that while KH was a really memorable course, and hugely enjoyable, it does not quite get to the magical levels of the National, while RM unquestionably has many great holes, it does not come close to either NGLA/Shinnie iin terms of the golfing atmosphere it exudes. That said, can't wait to go back!

Philip

KH and RM aren't exactly side by side but are probably the best 1/2 punch in Aust. golf within reasonable proximity to one another. Barnbougle Dunes and Lost Farm will make an interesting comparison if the later turns out to be any good ?  8)

From what I saw today Old Mac & Pacific Dunes should make a pretty good 1/2 punch as far as Modern courses go in the US ?


TEPaul

Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #46 on: October 26, 2009, 11:50:58 AM »
I've never been to Australia but of all the courses I've played I'm not aware of any two courses of the architectural stature and significance as close to one another as NGLA and Shinnecock.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2009, 12:15:43 PM »
How many blind shots does The National have? How mant where you cannot see where your ball ends up? Isn't there a famous CBM quote on blind shots?

Anthony

I don't understand why you're asking this. Didn't you play there a few weeks ago? 

What do you think?  Did you have the impression there were too many blind shots?

Maybe he was wearing sunglasses and it was a cloudy day.   8)

There are very cool blind shots such as the approach to #17 from the right side where all you can see is the very top of the flag stick.


tlavin

Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2009, 12:26:26 PM »
Awesome golf porn.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The National (pictures)
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2009, 12:51:12 PM »
Awesome golf porn.
;D
Now that's funny...Mr. Lavin's comment just under that ass pic of Mr. McBride on the Leven.

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