Unforgettable England - The Third at Deal

[John Mayhugh]

One of the holes I most remember from my trip to Buda was at Deal.  The third hole epitomizes how special golf in England was.

The third is a relatively short par 5.  It's only 510 yards from the tips and well under that from the regular member's tees.  The hole is pretty much straightaway, but hardly straightforward.  There is a seawall all along the right side of the hole.  The aerial shows from the start of the fairway up to the green.  From overhead you get some sense of how much movement there is to the ground.


This image from the tee is a pretty common one at Deal.  The first time through, you sort of think about just where you're supposed to hit the ball.  There is a pleasant sameness to the color of the grass all around and everything sort of blends together.  (One note - many of these photos show why I need to replace my camera.  Under windy conditions, little particles of dust can get inside the lens area and create spots like those seen in the upper right hand corner.  You don't really notice until it's too late, though it hardly matters as you can't do much about it at the time.)


From the forward tee.


There is a bunker on the right that's about 280 from the back tee.  The safer play is to the left side of the fairway, leaving this look for the second shot.


Or you could play it "safe" of the bunker and just hit right of the fairway along the seawall.


The view from past the two bunkers at the top of the hill.


And a bit nearer.  I love all the rolls in the fairway.


If you lay up too close to the green, there can be an extra bit of blindness to the approach.


The green is mostly hidden from the fairway. All you can see is a flag and the back portion of the green.  Judging distance is difficult.


This from the right side.  The fourth tee is to the left of the green.


A look back at the fairway from just in front of the green.


Here awaits one of the coolest green complexes I've ever seen.  Now that's a punchbowl.




From front right.


Worthy of photos all around.


Note how difficult it would be to get close to a front hole location.






From the fourth tee.




Further along the fourth hole.


And one last peek at the fairway while standing on the 18th tee.


If this hole doesn't stay in your mind, you have no golf soul.

[Alex Miller]

Thanks for the photos John!

This does look like a great hole, especially the green complex. I like that this punchbowl has a back tier. It seems like there would be a tremendous variety of pin placements because of this feature.

[Bill_McBride]

Dang, I thought it was a long par 4!

[Sean Leary]

Looks awesome.

[Rob Rigg]

Now THAT looks F&F - spectacular.

All those undulations, on the fairway and also on the green, fantastic stuff - thanks for the great photos.

[John Mayhugh]

Dang, I thought it was a long par 4!

Typical American.  You get caught up in what par is supposed to be......   

Actually, Bill is correct.  I believe we played it as a par 4 every round from about 440 or so.  That takes the first bunker out of play, but I still ended up playing it as a three shot hole every day, hence my memory of it as a par 5. 

[Scott Warren]

It's a great hole, endlessly challanging and one I am always looking forward to playing from the second I roll into the car park. The movement of the land is just so amazing, and those rolls 80-30m short of the green make for the hardest half-wedge third shot you'll ever hit!

The green is just so tempting from 200 out, even though you're likely to end up past he flag if you make the punchbowl, and from anywhere past the hole on that green it's a bloody tough two-putt. I've had easily as many 6s as 4s!

There's a plan in place to move the tees back and inside the 2nd hole, making it play as a gentle gogleg left and as a par five from all tees, rather than a par 4/5 as it is now. The fairway bunker closest to the tee was built for this purpose, but as best I recall (I blame the wine at the Buda dinner) Gordon Irvine said there is no timeline as yet for the construction of the tees.

[Tony_Muldoon]

John thanks for this I can only hope you did the ame for the 6th and 12th greens and the whole of the 16th. Great fun holes
Scott I expect it sooner rather than later. I will wait until I see it, but at the moment the better I hit my drive the blinder the next shot. Intruiging.

[Mark Chaplin]

Correct we played it as a 4, new bunker is around 220 but designed for the new back tees which will make the hole 570 and 520. The new tee will drastically reduce the peril to dog walkers and Patagonian penguin fanciers on the sea wall as well as reducing congestion on the tee as no hopers usually wait for the green to clear before dunching into the bundy. The slopes up to, around and on the green are fantastic especially in F&F conditions, which enable the players imagination to run riot.

[John Mayhugh]

Mark,
What wind we had was in our face on this hole (both days).  Isn't it typically from behind?  I'm not complaining as the shift no doubt made the closing holes play easier.

Tony,
Will post what I have of the 12th & 16th sometime in the next few days.  Unfortunately, I have only one or two photos of the 16th green.  My photo taking is very dependent on how I'm playing the hole.  Sometimes I get too caught up in the struggles of my game to remember to take pics. 

[Mark Pearce]

John,

I know for a fact that you had two matches climax on 16, so you are excused your lack of photos.  I do think 16 was the best hole on a course with a number of really, really good holes and three great green sites (3, 12, 16).

Mark

[Anthony Gray]

  Great thread. I assume the prefered approach is to bounce it in?

  Anthony

[Scott Warren]

  Great thread. I assume the prefered approach is to bounce it in?

  Anthony

Depends on the club. From any distance, it's a ideal play to have the ball tip over the front of the punchbowl with its final rotation, so it won't have too much heat on it as it runs down the face and will settle around the middle of the green.

The pin is often cut about 4-5ft in front of the shelf you can see in the greensite pics, which is steeper on the right, so if you are up the back and have to putt down, getting the ball to stop within 6ft of the hole can be tricky.

If you've had to lay up, a better move (esp. into the wind) is to try to fly the ball onto the front half of the green, but that brings in the likelihood of landing on the front slope and cannoning off into the gunj behind the green, so is best only attempted with a short iron in hand.

[Mark Pearce]

I'm not as familiar with the hole as Scott but bouncing it in is not straightforward.  The fairway immediately in front of the green is like the crest of a wave.  Land it on the upslope and there's a good chance the bank will kill the ball and leave a very nasty chip - almost impossible to get close to a front pin position.  Slightly overcook it and land on the downslope and you're going to be at the back of the green or, more likely, through the back.  The best bet to bounce it in is to land a ball before the wave and let it run over, that requires a low angle of attck and some momentum.  Probably easier done with a 200 yard second shot than a 100 yard 3rd.

[ChipOat]

What the hell kind of golf course is this?

No lush green fairways;

No "aiming trees" that you can use for your tee shot;

No blue dye in any water hazard or yellow plastic flowers in order to look good on television a la ANGC;

No powered golf carts;

I'll bet they don't have any plush white carpeting in the locker rooms, either.

Haven't they figured out in the U.K. as yet that the proper template for what golf should be is a U.S. country club?

Those English really are an eccentric bunch.

[Jamie Barber]

removed (didn't read properly before posting )

[James Boon]

John,

Thanks for posting these. I haven't played Deal, though I did caddie during Open Final Qulaifying back in 03, and this was certainly my favourite hole, and I get the impression one of yours... 

A trip back down to the South East is on the cards for next year!

Jamie,

When on here I think its probably best if one Thinks First then Posts Later 

Cheers,

James

[Jamie Barber]

When on here I think its probably best if one Thinks First then Posts Later 

It was a case of mis-reading, not mis-thinking (I read "lush green fairways" as "lush greens"). My comment was that, whilst Deal's greens are excellent, I was surprised how soft and receptive they were for a seaside links after 2 months with no rain.

[John Mayhugh]

John,

I know for a fact that you had two matches climax on 16, so you are excused your lack of photos.  I do think 16 was the best hole on a course with a number of really, really good holes and three great green sites (3, 12, 16).

Mark

The 16th did offer plenty of drama in my matches.  Some of that was self-induced like my blading an easy chip across the green into the tall stuff, my partner miraculously getting the ball on the green, and then me sinking a 50+ foot putt.  Ah, the joys of foursomes.

[Eric Smith]

The 16th did offer plenty of drama in my matches.  Some of that was self-induced like my blading an easy chip across the green into the tall stuff, my partner miraculously getting the ball on the green, and then me sinking a 50+ foot putt.  Ah, the joys of foursomes.

I thought I noticed an international flair to those TWO 50'+ long distance dedications you ran in a couple of weeks ago at Holston.

[James Boon]

When on here I think its probably best if one Thinks First then Posts Later 

It was a case of mis-reading, not mis-thinking (I read "lush green fairways" as "lush greens"). My comment was that, whilst Deal's greens are excellent, I was surprised how soft and receptive they were for a seaside links after 2 months with no rain.

No worries Jamie, I hope you didnt think I was trying to preach to you or anything?  

Cheers,

James

[John Mayhugh]

John thanks for this I can only hope you did the ame for the 6th and 12th greens and the whole of the 16th. Great fun holes
Scott I expect it sooner rather than later. I will wait until I see it, but at the moment the better I hit my drive the blinder the next shot. Intruiging.

More pics of the green at three than any other place. Sitting in the bowl made it so much easier to photograph. 

The sixth hole is a brilliant short par 4.  From the back tee, it's 285 to the front of the green and the prevailing wind is behind (supposedly  ).  In this aerial, the hole is on the left.  The large green at the lower left is the fifth.  As you can see, seawall is to the right.  Like the third, not a lot of definition from the tee.




A delightfully bumpy fairway means the layup is likely not to find a level lie.




As you get nearer the green, the challenge becomes clearer.  No bunker needed as the green has steep falloffs front and right.








A look back towards the tee from the green.  The tee is in a line left of the clubhouse in this pic, with the fairway to the right mostly out of view.  It seems like a great play to carry the right rough if that's in your bag.  Not in mine.


With the front hole location, it's a really tough short hole.  Sure you can safely hit an approach to the back of the green, but no way I felt like being aggressive putting back towards the fairway.

[Mark Pearce]

6 was another great hole and one that made you think about strategy.  Your 4th picture shows me about to play my 2nd in our singles match, I think.  I had driven pin high and, as you can see, close to the green.  The result, with a front pin posiition?  No prayer of getting it close with anything but a very high risk shot.  I would have been far better laying up 70 yards left of the green and leaving a full pitch in.  Others tried to drive the hole and I suspect that good players would rather be long (which is by no means impossible) leaving a more straightforward chip back.

[Scott Warren]

I had a giggle when I saw that pic, Mark. Nigh on the toughest golf shot I have ever played. How did you play it and what was the result?

With the pin at the back, where you are is perfect, but to that pin, you're exactly right - further out is the place to be. I like to be just short of the green, but as far left as possible. From there you are hiting down the length of the green towards the sea wall instead of in from an angle with that back slope waiting to feed the ball down into the rough by the 7th green.

I've not been back to Deal since Buda, so this thread is keeping me fed, thanks John!

[Jamie Barber]

^ A few years back there was an article by Andrew Reynolds on how to play those shots. He advocated a "putting" style stroke with a straight-ish faced iron (like a 5), all along the ground.

Reynolds is the long standing pro at Deal so should have a pretty good idea.