drainage questions

[Steve Salmen]

I spent the summer playing links courses.  Though it sometimes rained the entire night, I don't once recall plugging one ball in the fairway or rough.  I understand this is a function of the sand base.

Question for the architects: If a developer were to build a course and desired an artificial sand base, how many feet would be required so that heavy rain would not prevent the course from playing firmer and faster than most courses?  Also, would it take centuries for that sand base to become compacted at links courses?  Is it even possible or a complete waste of time and money?

This weekend I was invited to play a top golf course.  It was a fabulous experience except I've become spoiled by not playing in mud after rain.  This cannot be helped but is impossible to not observe.

[Tom_Doak]

Steve:

Lots of courses in the American West and in the Far East have been built with a one-foot sand cap over the entire golf course.  That's 80-100 acres of sand times one foot deep = 150,000 cubic yards of sand, times $10 to $40 per cubic yard.

Most of those courses drain fine.  But I suspect a lot of them have financial issues as a result of this method.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Steve,

Well the more the better with 6-8" being the minimum sand layer.  It costs a ton to haul in sand, so most projects that plate subsoil with sand keep it in that range.

However, if you have a clay base below it, sometimes you just transfer the problem down a bit, and when water really builds up, even the sand get soggy.  You probably need some tile drains or catch basins in the clay to make sure it doesn't get saturated, which may show up on top.

Sand is either angular or rounded particle shape.  Rounded never compacts and angular compacts quite nicely.  You would need to run some tests to make sure your sand was of the angular variety, or at least "sub angular."

[JSPayne]

As much as I know how good of an idea sand-capping may be, it's not without its faults.

I hear tell of a local course that sand-capped when it underwent a full rennovation. I don't know if the decision was made to solely to save money (though I'm sure it was definetely a factor), but they chose only to sand cap the fairways. Works great for playability. Not so great from a maintenance standpoint. Unless you have back-up heads in your fairways to be able to water the sand-based fairways differently than the clay-based roughs, irrigating in the peak of summer can become a major issue. Likewise drainage, playability, and many other turf management practices may need to be drastically altered to accomodate for the varying soil types.

I don't think those courses on an "after-the-fact" fairway topdressing program will notice these problems as much, since their layer is being built up slowly over time and organics are getting into the mix on an ongoing basis. But it's fairly easy to see the issues that can arise with new construction where one area of turf is sitting on 12" of sand while the turf right next to it sits on compacted clay. Especially if a super only has the resources and irrigation system to manage the two areas the same way. Seems to me like it'd have to be an all or nothing decision. Sand cap the whole course, or nothing at all. Or at the very least tailor your irrigation system to be able to seperately control the water needs of the two soil types.

[Jeff_Brauer]

JSP,

That is so true. Its also true that if you only sand cap the fw, you probably create some drainage pockets that need to be taken care of in addition to making sure the sublayer isn't too saturated.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Steve,
We built a course on a clay base.
We capped the areas we most disturbed - and didn't cap the base that had more sand.
The sand was from the back of the property.

I have a hard time noticing playability differences - it is all firm and fast.

Don Mahaffey our super is the biggest reason.


P.S. Go Yankees!

[Randy Thompson]

In Argentina they have a typical lousy clay base and we are forced to create a lot of surface drainage. We were involved in a project with the Nicklaus group in a swamp and the project dredged very deep lakes and found sand. We tested the sand and the lab recomended 18 inches and any less would require herringbone drainage. it was still very costly. We capped six inches in the rough that was tappered down from the 18 inches in the fairway. Shaping the sub base was a treat, trying to imagine everything later with six to eighteen inches of sand. But the results were excellent. Jack and company then did another project in the area(signature design and he actually made a visit or two) and capped with 12 in the fairway and four in the rough. Money got tight and they robbed the sand from the driving range to finish the 10th hole but the other eight holes have been stopped for sabout a year now. I hear they may get rolling again in January but numbers are not good but..who said golf was suppose to make a profit!! Conclusions...depth will vary based upon the sub base material and the sand...but have deep pockets and make sure you have a clientel that will absorb the extra cost for playing mud free rounds throughout the year.

[Carl Nichols]

Randy:
Nordelta?

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

if there is adequate subsurface drainage (ie if there are channels to drain the water away) then capping (or topdressing) works fine. however the cost of doing this (along with the cost of adding the sand) means it rarely gets done. the drains reduce the potential for the sand becoming waterlogged and causing more problems by ensuring the water has somewhere to go and not 'sit' on the subsoil.

[Steve Salmen]

Tom, Jeff, Mike, Randy, JSP, anyone who knows,

My concern is how muddy the course gets when and after it rains.  I understand it's a function of the surface and sub surface.  Is there an amount of sand (1 ft, 5 ft, 10ft) that will drain well regardless of what's below?  Assuming a pretty strong two day storm hit the course (3-4 in of rain).

Tom indicated it costs 10-40/yd.  Is it pretty crazy to lay down sand in the first place or is it cheaper to install drainage systems?  If the cost is justifiable, it seems like a huge win to play on sand.  Muddy fairways and rough must add to the maintenance expense of the course.

Thinking out loud.

Steve

[Mark Smolens]

Didn't some of the most recent renovation at the TPC at Sawgrass have something to do with sand capping their fairways?  Seems to me I recall reading something like that, which was designed to allow the course to play firmer and faster?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Steve,

Do your fairways and roughs have any surface pitch to them or are they dead flat?

It would take quite a bit of sand to not have the problme bubble up to the surface at some point.

[Steve Salmen]

Jeff,

I would assume a piece of rolling land with relative high and low spots, not much more than 20 or 30 ft from high to low.  Similar to an old school links course, ie NB.  My idea is to try to artificially get a golf course to play like a links course, especially after rain.  I think that's the biggest difference in how parkland and links courses play, and it's huge.  Playing in mud is just not fun.  But links courses don' much seem to be affected by water.

What is the most amount of sand you've heard of an owner laying below the grass?

I appreciate your help.

Steve

[Anthony Gray]

  In Scotland you see them "sanding" the fairways. Why don't we do that in the states? Won't it build up in time? Or at least sand those areas that retain water. Good topic Steve.

  Anthony

[Ray Richard]

Drainage problems are resolved with intensive subsurface research. Divide the wet area into 10 foot grids, and remove a core from each intersection. Identify soil types and draw each core location on a plan to develop pipe routing. Determine pipeline elevations and develop construction slopes. Install HDPE pipe with geofabric covering, and backfill with high-perc drainage sand.

[Brian Phillips]

  In Scotland you see them "sanding" the fairways. Why don't we do that in the states? Won't it build up in time? Or at least sand those areas that retain water. Good topic Steve.

  Anthony

Cost

[Randy Thompson]

Carl,
Yes nordelta and the second course is Pilara in Pilar.
Randy

[Brett Hochstein]

I just played Kingsbarns two days ago and the course was as fast or faster than the New Course during a dry period a month ago.  There has been a bit of rain here lately, and I was really looking forward to seeing how the sand cap on agricultural soil would hold up to the wetness.  My hopes were not high, but I was extremely and pleasantly surprised at the results.  Of course, the steady 30 mph wind probably helped to dry the place out, but still. 

I remember asking but not getting a definitive response about the sand cap.  Does anyone know what the thickness is?  I thought it was less than a foot (~6") but could be wrong.

[Niall C]

I just played Kingsbarns two days ago and the course was as fast or faster than the New Course during a dry period a month ago.  There has been a bit of rain here lately, and I was really looking forward to seeing how the sand cap on agricultural soil would hold up to the wetness.  My hopes were not high, but I was extremely and pleasantly surprised at the results.  Of course, the steady 30 mph wind probably helped to dry the place out, but still. 

I remember asking but not getting a definitive response about the sand cap.  Does anyone know what the thickness is?  I thought it was less than a foot (~6") but could be wrong.

Brett

I think I'm right in saying that there isn't a sand cap as such at Kingsbarns. The course is laid out over links (lower part) and cultivated land with a heavier soil (upper part). From what I gather they spent a lot of time mixing the two to try and get a consistency across the course. I've often wondered if that is why they shut down for three months over winter, because the soil doesn't hold up but from what you say that wouldn't be the case.

Niall

[Brett Hochstein]

Niall,

That is really good information to know.  Perhaps this is why I have noted the soil to be quite reddish brown in the exposed areas of the site, though it is coarse and sandy in texture.  I always thought the low part of the site was sandy and in more true nature of a links, and I took a photo of exposed sand that might confirm it.  I will post it when I upload it on photobucket, but it looks like a very natural bunker just off the 12th tee. 

Additionally, I find this mixture to be prevalent at Crail as well.  Only the lower seaside holes of the Balcomie seem to be true links.  The rest of the holes seem to be more agricultural in landform and  soil terms.  The routing is very cool and oldfashioned, but it is not really fast and firm like other links and contains many more of the 'pasture' grasses.