News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Askernish, Outer Hebrides (All 18 holes posted)
« on: October 15, 2009, 12:53:23 PM »
I’ve just returned from a wonderful holiday with my wife, getting away from it all on the Outer Hebrides, the island chain to the very far north west of Scotland. While there, I also managed to play Askernish!

Firstly, I have to thank Ralph, the clubs chairman, for joining me for the last 12 holes, and also to Melvyn for arranging this. Ralph told me all about the history of the course and what they have done recently, as well as some of their future plans. He also acted well as a caddy with advice on clubs, lines etc, but more of that later.

There has already been quite a bit written on here about the course, but I just had to post some more photos. I’m sure these pictures will bring up a lot of issues already mentioned, but to start off with I’m going to try and concentrate on just letting you know how I felt the course played, and I have to tell you it was incredible fun!

I turned up at the little timber clubhouse where the car park was full. Well both spaces anyway, so I asked someone where I should park (this later turned out to be Allan, a great guy and the clubs greenkeeper) and it seems that the laid back island life starts here. Park the car wherever you want. I then paid my green fee and headed over to the practice putting green, a very undulating raised up green that I later learnt used to be the clubs 9th hole before the recent work. The grass was in comparison to pretty much every other course I’ve ever played pretty long and the greens slow, but I was expecting this. They sort of reminded me of Painswick, for those of you that know there, probably a touch slower, and a good job with some of the undulations that were to come.

Here’s the view of the clubhouse from the putting green.


Hole 1
A short par 5, just under 500 yards.

I wandered over to the first tee, sitting up on a small raised area, and looked around. I have to admit I knew where the first hole was heading but with such immature fairways, they don’t exactly jump out at you. But again, this was as I expected. Here’s the view of the first fairway.


The hole dog legs to the right. You can see a dark patch in the centre, which seemed a good line. This turned out to be an unmown ridge separating a small raised area of fairway to the left, from the rest of the fairway. A good line, but if you can hit it far enough right of this is best, but there is a hollow in the rough to the right.

There wasn’t much wind, which was incredible for our short stay on the islands, and I wasn’t well warmed up so I nudged a mid iron down the middle leaving a short iron to the green. This is the view from short of the green, showing how its slightly raised up to the left, but then it slopes down to the right to be pretty much at fairway level.


This can be seen better from the rear. You can see the hollow through the back for anyone who goes long.


Hole 2
A short par 3 of 140yards.

This is the view from the tee.

These first few holes are what Ralph later described to me as the flatter and more boring part of the course. I assume this is due to the lack of larger, more striking dunes. This also in some part makes the holes less defined as mentioned earlier, but I believe this will probably change with time as the fairways, greens and rough become more apparent. However it did make judging distances a bit tricky. When Ralph later joined me his local knowledge was a great help. I don’t have a laser but I do often use yardage books or 150 markers though I don’t obsess over them. However this was old fashioned golf in its purest form without any of these aids, and I liked it, though it took several holes for me to really get the feel for the distances, helped when Ralph joined me with his local knowledge. I’m sure with a few more rounds I would have got the hang of it…

Here is the view from just short, the hole appears to be on top of a ridge.


But this picture looking back from the back left shows the spine that runs across the green


Hole 3
A short par 4 of 270 yards, though it does dogleg making the direct route to the hole shorter, so unless its wind against, quite a few people will have a chance of getting close to this green with their tee shot. Here’s the view from the tee with the main fairway starting out to the right and dog legging round to the left where you can see the green


This is the view from the fairway. You can see an area of sand in the bottom left of this picture, which is one of the natural areas of erosion, mainly due to the rabbits I suspect. Ralph later told me that in general at present they take relief from these and are trying to cover them over, if they can do something about the rabbits. I’m sure if any get out of hand there is a good chance that they could be turned into “God’s Bunker mkII” but I’ll expand on that when we get to the 12th hole.


And this is from just short of the green.


This is the view from behind the green on the line of an approach from the fairway, which shows the slope of the green better. A shot at the green with your drive comes more from the right on this photo. You can also see a small grassy hump that the green is mown around. This probably shows how in places it really was just a case mowing the greens wherever they found a reasonable spot (when they weren’t the OTM greens).


That’s the first 3 holes and I didn't find them too boring! I’ve lots more photos and lots to mention, thanks to some of Ralph’s storys, but not enough time at the moment. I just wanted to get this thread started as several people have asked me about my experiences there. But I’ll leave it at that for the moment and hopefully post some more holes soon. Also feel free to ask any questions, I’m happy to try and answer, and Ralph has started posting on here recently as well so he will probably chip in.

Cheers,

James
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 11:08:55 AM by James Boon »
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
James- hurry up with more photos!!!. That course is looking better and better, the conditioning looks at another level already. Perhaps a few Lleylandi at edges of the fairways would be good just to define the edges. One question are the carts allowed on the fairways?
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Excellent stuff James. One question - you mentioned that Ralph said that the relatively uninteresting/flat start to the round was about to change. Are they going to reroute the course ?

Niall

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
James - with your comment on green undulations I'm looking forward to hearing how you got on at number sixteen!

Adam
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Melvyn Morrow


James

Well pleased with the great photos. Look forward to hearing and seeing more when you have the time. So pleased you enjoyed yourself.

Think golf has a future? Perhaps one day it may be played all over the world. ;D

Melvyn


James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Glad you guys like the photos so far,

Niall, I've edited the wording a bit there now. I didn't mean that they were changing the course, only that with time the mowing and maintenance of the fairways and greens will make them more defined than they are at present. My editor is fired and I need more coffee to keep me alert...

Cheers!

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Glad you guys like the photos so far,

Niall, I've edited the wording a bit there now. I didn't mean that they were changing the course, only that with time the mowing and maintenance of the fairways and greens will make them more defined than they are at present. My editor is fired and I need more coffee to keep me alert...

Cheers!

James

I think that is already happening. I should post some of the pictures I took when I first went up there in March 2006 to show the contrast between what was there before and what's been achieved already.

Adam
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Adam, please post some older photos if you can. That would make a great reference to see how far things have progressed.

Hole 4
320 odd yards of par 4

The main dunes in this area are along the sea, but there is also a more inland bank of dunes from which you tee off on this hole, that continues all along the right till you get to the green. This is the view from that tee.
 
After pushing my tee shot I had my first run in with the rough at Askernish. There is usually plenty of fairway to hit on these holes and I suggest you do your best said fairway, as it can at times be a real pain trying to find a ball in the silverweed, as I seem to recall Ralph calling it?

You can see in this photo of the approach that the fairway has some great low humps and hollows giving it a classic links character. The green is raised up slightly with drop offs all round the back.


A closer look at the front of the green.


Here’s the view back to the 4th green from the 5th tee. The fairway is off to the right running away from where the picture is taken.

You can see the drop off all round the back of the green, as well as the dunes in the back of the photo that run down the length of the hole. Apart from hitting it into the rough, I played a conservative tee shot and thought it was a good approach to the green. Not sure how it would play as a driveable short par 4, but I think it makes a real good medium length par 4. I’m not sure if this was one of OTM’s original greens but it certainly feels like a natural green site to me. All in all, probably one of my favourite holes on the course (of which there were quite a few!)

And from the 5th tee you can look across the land to the north, which doesn’t look to bad to me for some links golf. The original plans drawn up had 3 holes in this area, but then they changed to have 3 holes running through the larger dunes to the very south.


Hole 5
350 yard par 4

This is probably the one holes that seemed a bit dull to me? Ralph had suggested some of the first 6 holes were nothing special and you have to wait till you really get in amongst the big dunes, but apart from this hole, I thought the early holes were all very good. Here is a view of the tee shot, and you can see the hole dog legs to the left slightly. Not great lighting on these I’m afraid.


Here is the approach, the green slopes from back left to front right.


And a better view of the green from short right, showing the slope and contours.


Hole 6
A long par 5 of 575 yards

This is the area that back in the 1930s was turned into a runway and the beginning of the disappearance of Old Tom Morris’ course? Here the tee shot from a slightly raised position, over a hollow and then onto the long ‘runway’ fairway.


This is the view after a drive down the fairway, with the green up on a ridge in the distance.


Getting closer…


The ridge the green sits on, creates an upslope just short of the green. This close up shows another of the wee natural sandy areas that they hope to clear up in the future.


And lastly a look from behind the green, back down the hole.


Well that’s a third of the way round. It was here that Ralph joined me and the course really started to get going! The first 6 though are good links golf and not to be underestimated.

Will post more soon.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 08:30:01 AM »
"This close up shows another of the wee natural sandy areas that they hope to clear up in the future."

James,
Aren't they part and parcel of what the course represents? Why does the club want to remove them? 


p.s. Thanks for the photos
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 09:40:39 AM »
Jim,

On some holes there are more of these sandy areas than there is grass, c/o the friendly neighbourhood rabbits! Some of the photos I'll post later show this better. I think the plan is to reduce rabbit numbers and try to cover over most of these little areas, but a part of me would like to think that some of these could be the start of some additional future bunkering, like this one on the 6th? At the moment because there are so many, the locals just take relief without penalty, which seems fair enough.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 09:57:16 AM »
I remember in the very early days of GCA Tom Doak posted about a potential links opportunity in Scotland that would be right back to basics...no irrigation etc  (this was before Pacific Dunes).

Looks like Askernish beat him to it.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 10:00:11 AM »
James,
Yes, relief seems fair enough to me, but I sometimes ride in a golf cart  :o ;D

That's what I was thnking, re, future bunkers. That would seem to be the natural approach and the club promotes themselves that way. I await more photos, especially from the more pronounced dunseland.

Thanks again.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2009, 10:25:42 AM »
Very cool.  Thanks.
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2009, 10:46:32 AM »
To be fair, on those first six holes the green sites are a lot more interesting than the fairways.  That sixth green, great skyline look!

At Deal during the BUDA dinner party, Gordon Irvine gave a 15-minute presentation on the building of the new course at Askernish, with a series of very interesting and intriguing photos of the areas they felt were OTM holes and the ensuing "construction" of the holes you played, James.  Here he was in action, with the Deal secretary slipping through the door behind him:



It was a solid presentation that kept us all riveted in spite of the copious quantities of club's best claret being swilled at the time!

I would love to see Gordon's presentation put into "In My Opinion" format, including those before and after photos, and published on this web site.  It would be an invaluable resource for those fascinated by Askernish.

Anyone able to take on the task of contacting Gordon?  I think he has joined the GCA.com membership but haven't seen anything from him yet.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2009, 12:09:38 PM »
James,

Nice pics, thanks for posting them.

I must admit, I too am a little confused about what you wrote that not only do the locals want to "fix" the little sandy spots, but also are currently take relief from them.  It would seem this is all part and parcel with playing the game as it was originally intended, more specifically, accepting what the land and mother nature gives you and playing your ball where it lies.

If this is not the case, then I guess I'm a bit perplexed as I thought the spirit of the game was what this place was supposed to be about...but perhaps I'm mistaken on that one.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2009, 12:35:01 PM »
Kalen,

I can see where you are coming from with regards to the spirit of the game, play the ball where it lies etc but I think there is a degree of practicality involved in the desire to fix them. I think it was the 10th fairway that really was more sand than fairway and some of it was quite deep rabbit holes which I wouldn't want to lose a ball down, or twist my ankle falling in (but that might start a H&S debate so lets not go there!). I'm very much of the play the ball as it lies way of thinking, but surely ever since people have been playing golf their have been attempts to improve the playing surface to some degree?

Cheers,

James

2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2009, 12:36:48 PM »
I think James is right. Although Askernish is many things to many people, first and foremost its a place for its members to play golf. And like any other golfers, they'd like their course to be as nice as possible.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 12:38:32 PM »
Kalen,

I can see where you are coming from with regards to the spirit of the game, play the ball where it lies etc but I think there is a degree of practicality involved in the desire to fix them. I think it was the 10th fairway that really was more sand than fairway and some of it was quite deep rabbit holes which I wouldn't want to lose a ball down, or twist my ankle falling in (but that might start a H&S debate so lets not go there!). I'm very much of the play the ball as it lies way of thinking, but surely ever since people have been playing golf their have been attempts to improve the playing surface to some degree?

Cheers,

James


Thanks James,

Sounds like a logical explanation....I very much am not a fan of animal made holes on the golf course either.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2009, 12:55:26 PM »
Jim,

On some holes there are more of these sandy areas than there is grass, c/o the friendly neighbourhood rabbits! Some of the photos I'll post later show this better. I think the plan is to reduce rabbit numbers and try to cover over most of these little areas, but a part of me would like to think that some of these could be the start of some additional future bunkering, like this one on the 6th? At the moment because there are so many, the locals just take relief without penalty, which seems fair enough.

Cheers,

James

They just need to import some coyotes!

Thanks for the photos, James.  I like what I'm seeing.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2009, 01:06:40 PM »
James,

Nice pics, thanks for posting them.

I must admit, I too am a little confused about what you wrote that not only do the locals want to "fix" the little sandy spots, but also are currently take relief from them.  It would seem this is all part and parcel with playing the game as it was originally intended, more specifically, accepting what the land and mother nature gives you and playing your ball where it lies.

If this is not the case, then I guess I'm a bit perplexed as I thought the spirit of the game was what this place was supposed to be about...but perhaps I'm mistaken on that one.

Kalen

From the very early days they have been filling in rabbit scrappings and either turfing over sandy areas or making them into bunkers. These days they don't know what to do with them, either turf over the lot (Trump) or create a desert (Castle Stuart).

With regards to taking a drop, I think you'll find getting relief from rabbit scrappings was one of the earliest rules of golf.

Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2009, 01:28:58 PM »
James

I agree with you.  Apart from the 5th(?), the opening six holes look compelling enough for me.  It is wonderful to see greens emerge seamlessly from fairways.  

Folks probably don't realize that rabbits can tear a course apart pretty damn quickly if they and their handiwork aren't controlled.  Pennard has long battled rabbits and they are still the cause of some rough areas.  Suffice it to say that its either rabbits or golf that will be the king of a site - there is not enough room for the two of them to carry on aimlessly.  So far as dropping goes, a great many members of Pennard take liberal drops in the summer.  Its dandy to get a harsh lie (which can damage limb and club) once is a spell, but after a few times in a round it gets old.  Lets just say its easier and cheaper to take a drop than it is to repair/improve the ground in question.

I look forward to more pix!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2009, 01:50:57 PM »
I think James is right. Although Askernish is many things to many people, first and foremost its a place for its members to play golf. And like any other golfers, they'd like their course to be as nice as possible.

That's sensible. Refreshing.
David Lott

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides of Scotland (first 6 holes posted)
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2009, 05:20:50 AM »
Hole 7
A par 4 of almost 440 yards

The back tee for this hole has a great view across the beach over to the island of Barra to the south. Aiden Bradley captures this view, along with quite a few others, on his website…
http://www.golfcoursephotography.com/results.asp?KW=Askernish

However, we were playing from a more forward tee. You can see the dunes have just got bigger! The drive is between them and down into a valley.


This is the approach to a green that is raised up above the level of the fairway. A tricky target to hit with a long club in your hand.


The view from just short of the green.


And this is looking back, from the dunes behind the green


Ralph was explaining the old OS map from around the time of the OTM course. It had 18 #s on it that are believed to have been used at the time to indicate plateaus, so they believe these mark the 18 greens from the original course? The current 7th green is in one of these locations though they think its raised up after a lot of kelp was dumped around here some time in the past while it was being harvested from the beach?

Hole 8
A very short par 4 of just 249 yards

Though this is very short on the card, even for a driveable par 4, it does I believe play into the prevailing wind, and a great strategic hole. Here is the view from the tee.


And this is the view from next to the hollow that is about 60 or 70 yards short of the green to the right.


An iron off the tee brings the hollow into play. Playing safe and long of this to the left leaves a tricky approach to the green. A drive just short and right of the green will leave a simple chip up the length of the green, but the shot has to carry the hollow, come up short of a small dune on the right and avoid being sliced onto the beach.

Here is a view of the green from the left.


This is a really good natural greensite. The sea behind, the false front sloping back to the fairway and the bunkers to the left. Ralph told me that these were natural hollows and they, pretty much just took the turf up to expose the sand underneath. Here’s a link to Gordon Irvine’s website showing a before and after…
http://www.gordonirvinemg.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=14&Itemid=40&limitstart=4
If you scroll down on this site there are also pictures of the 3rd at Askernish and if you have a surf around there are also other Askernish pictures including one of Gordon Irvine working on the bunker on the 8th.

Here is a closer look at first bunker.


Hole 9
Short par 4 of 320 odd yards

From this tee you can see the 16th green to the left, but I'll leave that picture and its undulations till later... The drive on 9 is towards the sea, with the island of Barra in the background. Aim at the marker post, but unless its into the wind, its probably best to play a fairway wood or iron, as just after the marker post the land drops down into some deep rough. I imagine it would be possible to aim further left with a driver and knock it pretty close to the green?


When you get to your drive, you can see that the hole dog legs to the left, to a raised up green on a fairly narrow shelf angled from front right to back left.


View of the green from short right


And here’s a view from the next tee looking back, showing the steep drop off on this side.


Cheers,

James


« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 01:49:39 PM by James Boon »
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides (front 9 holes posted)
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2009, 01:45:56 PM »
Thank you James.   Great photos of a great looking course.

The shot in to 9 reminded me of "Little Devil" 7th at Barnbougle. 

7th Barnbougle   



9th Askernish
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Askernish, Outer Hebrides (front 9 holes posted)
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2009, 01:55:45 PM »
At Deal during the BUDA dinner party, Gordon Irvine gave a 15-minute presentation on the building of the new course at Askernish...

That was a lot longer than 15 mins, wasn't it?! I think Mr McBride might have nodded of for a quick 40 winks!! ;D

Which given the combination of drunkenness, darkness and how warm that room was, isn't entirely surprising. I had to slink out half-way through and splash some cold water on my face to keep myself from dropping off, despite Gordon's presentation being one of the most interesting GCA-related things I have ever seen.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back