Prairie Dunes photo tour

[Sean_A]

Prairie Dunes one day !

Indeed.  I never tire of looking at pix of this course yet I am always surprised at how good it looks.  I guess I am a slow learner. 

I am smitten by the cottonwoods.  They are cool looking trees and seem to have the perfect natural shape for golf with few lower branches.  How come I haven't seen this type of tree on other courses? 

It seems everybody and his brother plays PD.  Do they allow visitors?

Ciao

[Carl Nichols]

Prairie Dunes one day !

It seems everybody and his brother plays PD.  Do they allow visitors?

Sean:
I've heard from a few sources (and Ran's writeup mentions this as well) that the Club permits unaccompanied visitors with a letter of introduction or something similar. 

[Adam Clayman]

I am smitten by the cottonwoods.  They are cool looking trees and seem to have the perfect natural shape for golf with few lower branches.  How come I haven't seen this type of tree on other courses? 

It seems everybody and his brother plays PD.  Do they allow visitors?

Wow! For someone so critical, the above sentiment is surprising.

Cottonwoods as trees SUCK!

The wood is weak and the trees are prone to either fall, or, break off limbs. The mess they make when they seed and in the fall, is particularly annoying.

I really am shocked by the defenders of these specific trees, especially since recovery from the fairway is usually not considered a good thing. Is it? Both 12 and 15 are out of character with the entire course. The trees behind 14 are lovely, but, cause that green to have different characteristics than all the others.

[Sean_A]

I am smitten by the cottonwoods.  They are cool looking trees and seem to have the perfect natural shape for golf with few lower branches.  How come I haven't seen this type of tree on other courses? 

It seems everybody and his brother plays PD.  Do they allow visitors?

Wow! For someone so critical, the above sentiment is surprising.

Cottonwoods as trees SUCK!

The wood is weak and the trees are prone to either fall, or, break off limbs. The mess they make when they seed and in the fall, is particularly annoying.

I really am shocked by the defenders of these specific trees, especially since recovery from the fairway is usually not considered a good thing. Is it? Both 12 and 15 are out of character with the entire course. The trees behind 14 are lovely, but, cause that green to have different characteristics than all the others.

Adam

I am not defending the placement of the trees on PD.  Surely a few of the holes seem to have them needlessly about in the background.  But, I do like the look of the species, their shape is suitable for recovery shots - ie no low branches and if planted in small cops rather than lines they could be quite strategic. 

Ciao

[Adam Clayman]

Sean, Understood. I was just relaying the nature of Cottonwoods. Agreed they are good looking. But, on golf courses, their aesthetic is minimal compared to their headaches and dangerous nature. They grow very fast and like I said earlier, weak.

As to your inquiry about access. PD is a smart club. They have many nat'l members at reasonable initiation and are open for business. The food and service are excellent and the people are very friendly.

[ChipOat]

Alas, an example of Stupid Trees at Prairie Dunes.  Not surprisingly, there's also a group of tree huggers that think they're a legitimate aspect of credible golf architecture (which is NEVER the case).

Otherwise, the place looks great.  I've never played PD but, from the pictures, it looks very much like Shinnecock.  Other than the wind, is there any other resemblance in terms of how it plays?

[Sean Leary]

Chip,

Huckaby and I were talking about the Shinnecock similarity this very weekend when we were there. The back nine in particular reminds me in feel of Shinnecock.

[ChipOat]

TH knows how I feel about Stupid Trees, too!

Ask him about our dialogues on past GCA threads re: #17 at Cypress and #18 at Pebble.

[Adam Clayman]

Sean, Could you elaborate on the similar feeling with Shinney?

[Sean Leary]

Adam,

I just think the look of the course is similar. Maybe it is the sporadic trees combined with the high grasses.

The greens were a bit over the top today for the first time I have ever seen them in 40 rounds or so. Cold winds for two days baked them out and it was really blowing today. I would guess they were a legitimate 12 , so downwind they were like 16. Also they had a number of front pins on downwind holes with false fronts and some tricky pins where it was just too much. Those greens just can't handle speeds that fast.

[John Mayhugh]

No worries. I will check it out this weekend. We should get better weather, although Sunday is supposed to be quite windy..

Rub it in why don't you?   

Thanks for posting the pics, Clint.  I cannot imagine how tough that course plays in cold, windy conditions.

I don't even know who you are anymore, really. Its like an alien has taken over your body...

Just my keyboard. 

Hope you had a good trip.

[brad_miller]

Shinny and PD have many similarities. First they look much alike with the lack of trees and lots of tall rough.  Both place premium on the angle of attack to certain flag positions. Both generally have 2-3 clubs winds to deal with and on some days the wind can totally shift for a second round totally changing the course. If you look at some of the old black and white photos from "The Golf Course" Cornish/Whitten pages 88 and 93 the greens sites look like they could easily be from Shinny. Both course have a mixture of forced carries, false fronts and holes which "many" need to land the ball short of the green to hold or get the ball close to certain flag positions. As a group I believe the greens are smaller (not a comment that smaller is better) and certainly more interesting (Maxwell Rolls/internal contour) at PD. Using the Morrissett match play system I believe depending on the person one would find PD vs Shinny to be all square or one beating the other 1 up. If you compare the par 3's short and long 4's and par 5's I think you get a similar conclusion.  Both courses continue to improve the look and feel. Shinny with its great tree removal and greens expansions and PD with the work of C&C/Axland and Stan George.

TEP, it would be interesting to hear you thoughts on PD compared to Shinny, not which is better just a general compare contrast.

[Adam Clayman]

Brad, Interesting that you mention the par 3's. One of the crits I have heard of PD is the similarity in club use on the one shotters. With the wind two weeks ago, I did use the same club for every one of them. Granted I came uo short on 15, but, that was not a bad thing.

Sean, The greens were very fast and firm two weeks ago too. The only green where t he speed seemed over the top was #2.

[C. Squier]

Brad, Interesting that you mention the par 3's. One of the crits I have heard of PD is the similarity in club use on the one shotters. With the wind two weeks ago, I did use the same club for every one of them. Granted I came uo short on 15, but, that was not a bad thing.

Sean, The greens were very fast and firm two weeks ago too. The only green where t he speed seemed over the top was #2.

All depends on wind.  If there's none, there's a 40 yard difference between #2 and #15.  If the wind is right, they can both "play" 180.  If it's wrong, #2 can be a 9 iron and #15 a hybrid or even 3 wood.  Only #4 and #15 play in the same direction and they have a 30+ yardage difference from the back tees.

[brad_miller]

Adam, reasonable comment on par 3's, Being a little more careful with course set up depending on expected wind direction could improve. The distance for 2, 4, 10 and 15 can all be about the same depending on tees and flags.  That said if you mix them up (might not be case in Charles Craig) you get different club and shot shapes depending on the wind. I have found under many different conditions that I have used the following clubs:

#2 6-8 iron
#4 5-8 iron
#10 7-4 iron
#15 7-3 iron.

[Sean Leary]

The other shortcoming that was noted by a fellow GCAer was the number of right to left holes versus left to right. I cannot disagree. However, I noted Pine Valley is very similar except it is mostly left to right holes there.

Also what was intertesting to note is that on the original 9 at PD, it was 3-2 left to right...

[Sean Leary]

Regarding the par 3's, are we talking white or blues?  Sometimes it depends on the hole location. As a general rule, I would say that 4 plays one club longer than 2, 10 is usually the same club as 4, and 15 is 2 clubs longer than 4. From the blues. When the wind is from the north, throw this out. Saturday AM, 10 was a 200 yard shot. Yesterday it was 160....

Clint, actually 2 and 15 are the most similar in tems of direction.

[C. Squier]

Regarding the par 3's, are we talking white or blues?  Sometimes it depends on the hole location. As a general rule, I would say that 4 plays one club longer than 2, 10 is usually the same club as 4, and 15 is 2 clubs longer than 4. From the blues. When the wind is from the north, throw this out. Saturday AM, 10 was a 200 yard shot. Yesterday it was 160....

Clint, actually 2 and 15 are the most similar in tems of direction.

2 goes a little SW, whereas 4 and 15 are both facing NW.  In general, they do go the same direction....I had to check out an aerial myself to get them exact.

[Sean Leary]

[/quote]

2 goes a little SW, whereas 4 and 15 are both facing NW.  In general, they do go the same direction....I had to check out an aerial myself to get them exact.
[/quote]

Interesting. I'll have to check it out myself on an aerial...

[rjsimper]

2 and 4 are almost 90 degrees offset from each other in direction.

[Sean Leary]

Ryan, the question was about the direction of 15. Clint is right.

[ChipOat]

Sean Leary says, "Those greens just can't handle speeds that fast."

One of my pet peeves - Golden Era courses with modern day green speeds way in excess of that for which they were designed.