How much has the other courses diluted Bandon Dunes

[Chip Gaskins]

BIG caveat***  Pacific Dunes and Bandon Trails are by FAR my favorite on the property, BUT what if they weren't built.  I suspect we all would be beside ourselves with this great seaside, sand dunes, course, no?

Sand dunes, seaside, remote, pure golf, quirk, etc...

But, somehow Pacific Dunes, Bandon Trails, and soon Old Macdoanld simply dilute what would otherwise make one of the best...



It would be like building Murifield abutting the Old Course abutting Turnberry and picking favorites.  One of those courses would lose out for whatever reason and be relegated to second fiddle where if left stand alone it would top top notch.

[Eric_Terhorst]

Chip,

I'm not sure anything has been "diluted."  Last time i was out there, I decided that Trails is elegant, sophisticated, and seductive;  Pacific Dunes is like a magnificent museum piece that you're not supposed to touch, just stare at in wonder; and Bandon Dunes has beauty, for sure, but for me is less taxing than the others-- just plain fun.  Each of them has a great personality, and one of the great things about the resort is that each course is unique and has its own pleasures.  I like to play BD on my last round at the resort and walk off with a smile.

Bandon has its place in the rotation and always will for me--the fantastic thing about the resort is that each course addition adds a new way to enjoy golf...yes?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bandon Dunes will in all probability always be the weakest course at the resort.

[Alex Miller]

Bandon Dunes will in all probability always be the weakest course at the resort.

Even so it is still at the heart of the resort. I feel like the presence of Bandon Dunes gives the resort a timeline to work off of and fills a niche. I like the contrast of Bandon and Pacific, not many courses on neighboring land are more different! Pinehurst has other courses besides #2 and they all get play!

[Rob Rigg]

BD is simply a distant third and soon to be a distant fourth at the resort IMO

BUT

A lot of guys I know who have been down to BDGR enjoy Bandon Dunes the most so I wholeheartedly agree that it serves a purpose at the resort.

Not everyone is going to like the same style so I think it works out well for the resort to have soon to be four different courses.

Of course, on its own, with no competition, Bandon Dunes is a ton of fun to play and it has a bunch of holes along the Ocean that cannot be found elsewhere on the continent (especially for public golfers). 4, 5, and 16 are all really fun holes to play and the view up the coast at the 6th is tremendous.

However, if it was BD only, I would not make an effort to return every year.

[Jason Topp]

Last time I played there I looked forward to Bandon Dunes because I knew that if I hit the green in regulation (a significant accomplishment for me), I had a decent chance of making par.  I also appreciated the more manicured bunker style as a change of pace.  
I think the contrasts add to, rather than detract from the overall experience.  My guess is that adding Old Mac to the mix will make people relish these features of Bandon Dunes even more.

Ranking Bandon Dunes compared to the others depends on taste.  I did not have a strong preference for any of the three when I visited.  I enjoyed them all, albeit for different reasons.

[Jason Topp]

BD is simply a distant third and soon to be a distant fourth at the resort IMO

I bet if you ask a representative sample of customers what round they enjoyed most, Bandon Dunes would rank up with and might even surpass the other two. 

[Rob Rigg]

BD is simply a distant third and soon to be a distant fourth at the resort IMO

I bet if you ask a representative sample of customers what round they enjoyed most, Bandon Dunes would rank up with and might even surpass the other two. 

That is why I said as much in the balance of my post. I hope that I enjoy BD more when I go back in June.

[Michael Dugger]

Each course is different, and that is what is so great about it.

Even beyond the obvious ocean holes, 4, 5, 6, 12 & 16, Bandon Dunes is killer.

#1 is very cool.  #7 is fabulous.  High atop that green is one of my favorite places on the property.  (just don't go thinking the next hole is the 8th at Pacific!!!) 

#8 is a great hole.  I love #10 as well.

Only compared to the eye candy that is the other three course could one possibly utter a negative word about Bandon Dunes.

It's the original.....the Old Course, as I like to call it.  More forgiving....challenging yet you probably will not be climbing out of deep bunkers all day with a rake in your hand.

[Adam Clayman]

The problems that Bandon Dunes suffers, compared to the others, would still be present. Would the retail golfer still flock there for just the Dunes? I'd guess yes. I don't believe the average retail golfer could distinguish what those issues are. Can you Chip?

[Jason Topp]

The problems that Bandon Dunes suffers, compared to the others, would still be present. Would the retail golfer still flock there for just the Dunes? I'd guess yes. I don't believe the average retail golfer could distinguish what those issues are. Can you Chip?

Adam:

I would be interested in your view as to why Bandon Dunes suffers in comparison to the others.

[Sean_A]

I don't understand.  Are folks somehow implying that BD is less of a course because of the others at the resort? 

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

This is one of the problems with rating courses, and one of the reasons that rankings change over time.  It has to do with originality.  When Bandon Dunes was the only links course in America, it got major points for that.  But now that there are three others right beside it, it has to be compared to them.  [And I'm taking NO position on where it deserves to be ranked among them -- that's an argument for others.]

The same is true in many other rankings.  If Cherry Hills or Medinah were in Philadelphia or Westchester County, they probably wouldn't be ranked as highly.  If Morfontaine were between Swinley Forest and The Berkshire, would it?  If Barnbougle were next door to Brancaster, would it be ranked as highly?  You could make similar arguments against more than half the courses on the lists. 

It's the courses which truly defy comparison, that stand out in the end.

[Mike Wagner]

I LOVE all the courses - they are all different experiences.  For me, Pac is the most fun, Trails the most demanding, and Bandon is the most fun for scoring. 

After all that's been said already, I'd be interested to see how many rounds/year each gets...

[Sean Leary]

I LOVE all the courses - they are all different experiences.  For me, Pac is the most fun, Trails the most demanding, and Bandon is the most fun for scoring. 

After all that's been said already, I'd be interested to see how many rounds/year each gets...

I would guess Bandon gets the most, and Trails the least....

[Sean Eidson]

I would expect that Trails ends up far behind the other three in terms of rounds played.  It lacks the eye candy of the coastal holes and the scorability of the other courses.  I found Trails to be far less forgiving - just kicked my tail.  And it's easier to enjoy that when you're standing next to the ocean.

I think BD will always get plenty of play because, as someone mentioned earlier, it's the "heart" of the resort.  When you sit in the gallery for breakfast and watch the sunrise over 18, it's impossible not to feel drawn to the course. 

[Will MacEwen]

I find BD to be the easiest of the three courses, by far.  BT is kind of a grind, and PD always has some big numbers for me.  Together, they make for a nice mix.  BD is nice to open a trip, as a way to ease into things.  On my trips, some of the guys have some ring rust and the forgiveness is appreciated.

BD is my third choice, but I think it now gets a little overlooked, as others have stated.

[Jaeger Kovich]

Bandon has the same problem as Westchester NY, Long Island, Philly, Fife, Monterey and Surrey... and I'm sure they are damned proud of it!

[Ronald Montesano]

An honest question, Chip, but not the answer you're looking for (if you seek one particular response!)  Is The Old Course diluted by the New and the Jubilee, both of which might rank as more demanding?  Is it diluted by Castle or Kingsbarns?  If one seeks to measure, to rank, to reduce, to dilute, then one should self-examine.

As many have suggested here, each course is a piece of the overall puzzle.  When a piece is missing, we know that the puzzle is unfinished.  When the new 12-hole par three course is built, will it take away from the practice range course?  I don't think so.  Bandon Dunes is a solid course with a somewhat weak hole at the end.  The 9th and 10th at The Old Course aren't the strongest holes in golf, either.  The other 17 and 16, respectively, are stellar.

[Jeff Taylor]

While viisiting the resort, I had heard that Trails gets the least amount of play. Makes sense to me. After all, it is easy to assume that you are in North Carolina when playig the middle part of the golf course. Doesn't mean that it isn't fun or even incredibly difficult. It's just not linksy.
I associate the resort with links golf. To me, that means that it isn't suroundede by trees. Shallow? Maybe.
Downgrading BD is like favoring one finger on your hand over another.

[Brent Carlson]

Chip,

You are exactly right.  BD is a really good course.  But personally, I get psyched to play PD much more than BD.  I simply enjoy the architecture and green complexes of PD that much more.  If it were only BD, how often would I get there?  Probably every five years as opposed to the ideal annual trip.

[Jud_T]

I think BD will always have a place in the history of GCA in this country.  We are headed back out there and I'm trying to figure out in 8 rounds how to divvy them up (2/1/2/1/2). I'm thinking 3 Old Mac, 2 Pac Dunes, 2 Bandon Trails (have to finally conquer that f%$#ing 14th hole!) and 1 Bandon Dunes...If golfing tourists fill up the tee sheet at BD and that allows easier access to OM and PD, then I'm all for it....

[Ross Waldorf]

I'm always game to add to a Bandon thread, since it's a place that's near and dear to my heart. Looking forward to getting out there next September for a bunch of rounds at Old Macdonald, which will, no doubt, be wonderful. But I always feel compelled to come to the defense of Bandon Dunes, which is a great (and I think undervalued here) golf course. Perhaps it's the less flamboyant style, particularly in the bunkering, that seems to bring it down. There's also the perceived lack of subtlty, or "finish work" complaint that gets thrown around on GCA when Bandon Dunes gets discussed. I don't really agree with either.

When I think hole by hole, I tend to look at it this way:

1: Best opener at the resort (pre-Old Mac, natch, because who knows about that one -- Tom Doak seems to like it quite a bit)
2: I really like the hole a lot -- don't really get the lack of love for it
3: A tad unspectacular, but a great tee view and a very enjoyable hole to play for me
4: Great, you guys know why
5: Great, see above comment
6: Terrific hole, great view, very solid
7: An oddball hole that I really like a lot. A very cool approach and green, with perhaps a bit of a mundane tee shot, although I like that you can't see where you're going all that well
8: Not my personal favorite, but still very solid and a wonderful linksy kind of tee view
9: A decent but unremarkable hole

10: Love this hole -- a favorite on the course and at the resort
11: A very, very stern hole that is understated and quite good -- the front bunker is a great feature that makes the hole for me, along with the low swale middle left in the green
12: Solid and very attractive par 3 -- again, it's nice how the bunker really makes the hole
13: Nobody seems to like this hole much, but I kind of do. Granted, it's a bit unfocused, but the giant scale of the undulations in the fairway tends to add something to the experience of playing the course
14: Terrific hole
15: A stern par 3 -- love the skyline green and the scary bunker
16: Put me in the absolutely love it category
17: Very solid hole, but the turn away from the ocean leaves me a smidge disappointed
18: A decent but unremarkable hole

I think that my descriptions for 9 and 18 are a big reason for the lower ratings (among this crowd, at least). Personally, although I think the Trails might be a better course, I probably enjoy playing Bandon Dunes a bit more. But I'll play the Trails twice and Bandon Dunes once when I go next year, just because I have less experience on it.

That's my $.02, anyway.
R

[Will MacEwen]

Ross - 10 is one of my favourites on the property as well.  When I fortuitously pushed a drive 20 yards left of my intended target I discovered a much better way to play the hole. 

17 is my favourite, despite the turn away from the ocean.  It has traditionally played as a tough par 4 (they have since opened up the left side though), and late in a match there will be blood here.

[Ross Waldorf]

Will: I think 17 is a very good hole, I just tend to be the slightest bit bummed after leaving the 16th green and heading for home. But I think what I was getting at with the comment is that this particular feeling is why the course as a whole gets somewhat downgraded with some of the GCA-type reviews. There's a bit of a feeling of coming down when you head in -- on both nines -- that can create a slightly less rosy picture when you play Bandon Dunes, that to me, is disproportionate to the reality of the golf course's quality.

Now, put me in the Pacific-is-my-favorite category, just so people know where I'm coming from. My reason is that I stand on almost every tee  at Pacific and think "well, this might be one of the most interesting holes I've ever seen." Which is inspiring. Pacific is a work of art, I think, in the true sense of the phrase. Bandon doesn't manage that level of inspiration, for me at least. But I do think it's ja fabulous golf course, and I  tend to go into defense mode when it gets the "if I split 10 rounds at the resort I don't think I'd even play Bandon" treatment.

I love the golf course.