[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Mine also shows how hard it is to bring a great par 5 to mind...so I to have a gap...some of the yardages are guessed as well..

1.Royal Birkdale....450 par4
2.Oak Hill East.....403 par4
3.
4.Garden City.......560 par5
5.Woodhall Spa......155 par3
6.Ballyneall............480 par4
7.Portmarnock.....184 par3
8.Pebble Beach.....440 par4
9.Western Gailes.....336 par4


10.Riviera......340 par4
11.Troon.....450 par4
12.Augusta ....156 par3
13.Pacific Dunes...444par4
14.Merion...450 par4
15.Pine Valley 570 par5
16.Cypress Point 265 par3
17.St Andrews...450 par4
18.Sand Hills.....440 par4

[Doug Sobieski]

6, 7, 8, and 9 at Crystal Downs all listed. That's pretty cool.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

As a Brit I was delighted to read Ben Stephens' list. It really appeals to me. I am pleased to see Luffenham Heath in the mix - a most enjoyable course, which is perfectly to suited to represent all those other jolly good B-list courses in the UK which have so much pleasure to give.

[Gene Greco]

1.  Sand Hills Golf Club 5

2.  Royal Dornoch 3
 
3.  Royal County Down 4

4.  Fisher's Island 4

5.  Crystal Downs 4

6.  Lahinch 3

7.  Friar's Head  5

8.  Pebble Beach 4

9.  Maidstone 4

10. Pine Valley 3

11. Ballybunion 4

12. Banff Springs 4

13. Shinnecock Hills 4

14. The Old Course 5

15. Oakmont 4

16. Cypress Point 3

17. Kapalua Plantation 4

18. National Golf Links of America 5

[Jud_T]

gene,

no ANGC, Chicago or Seminole? you really need to get out more....   

[Ben Stephens]

As a Brit I was delighted to read Ben Stephens' list. It really appeals to me. I am pleased to see Luffenham Heath in the mix - a most enjoyable course, which is perfectly to suited to represent all those other jolly good B-list courses in the UK which have so much pleasure to give.

Thanks Mark, I used to be a member at Luffenham Heath - the 7th is the one of the hardest wedge shot to a large green in all golf! I still havent worked out how to play it properly. Mr Boon and I are due to play there in 2 weeks! I went up today and the course looks in good nick for this time of the year

[Gene Greco]

gene,

no ANGC, Chicago or Seminole? you really need to get out more....   

Jud:

    This is actually a fairly difficult exercise. (Though a very pleasant one).

For example, one of my favorite holes among many at Merion Golf Club is #11 not only for the architectural and visual interest but for the historical as well. Yet I had to eliminate it in deference to mighty all world #11 at Ballybunion. If I selected one of the other great holes at Merion, say #16, we are faced with the same problem running into a behemoth in #16 at Cypress Point, the greatest golf hole in the world. And the par for the hole would not be correct...and the flow of the course would be interupted...and other holes would need to change to get back to par 72.

There are an endless number of permutations...maybe a second list to include Merion, Seminole, Prairie Dunes and many others should be in order.

(I have walked Augusta numerous times but have not struck a golf shot on its premises. I have also walked much of Chicago GC but have not played it).

Essentially, I would use Sand Hills Golf Club, Shinnecock Hills, Pine Valley and National Golf Links of America as go to courses since I may use virtually any hole on these courses among my ultimate 18. All of these courses may be used as "filler" for my lists and just pick my favorites from among the others.

If I have time I will try to produce another.


               Gene

[Jason Topp]

I tried to create a memorable sequence of holes.  If I were to simply list my favorite number 1, number 2 etc. the list might be completely different. 

This set features a bunch of potential birdie holes (6,7,8?, 9, 10, 12, 13) in the middle of a stern start and finish.  The back none is all par fours but the holes are so varied, I doubt the player would notice.  Finally, I wanted to insert a homer hole from my course and thus its inclusion at 17 (although the only other par four I could come up with was at the Old Course and 12 might be my #1 pick from this list):


550   Sand Hills – 1 - 5
440   Pasatiempo 2 - 4
445   Lahinch – 3 - 4
175   Black Mesa – 4 - 3
190   Kingston Heath - 3
525   Pebble Beach – 6 - 5
110   Barnbougle 7 - 3
440   Dornoch 8 - 4
565   Bandon Trails – 9 – 5

3440    Par 36

280   Royal Melbourne West– 10 - 4
445   Ballybunion 11 - 4
300   The Old Course – 12 - 4
340   North Berwick – 13 - 4
350   New South Wales – 14 - 4
470   Kingsley Club – 15 - 4
360   Bandon Dunes – 16 - 4
390   Oak Ridge – 17 - 4
440   Kiawah Ocean – 18 – 4

3375 Par 36

6815 Par 72

[tlavin]

1. Sand Hills, par 5
2. Pinehurst #2, par 4
3. Spyglass Hill, par 3
4. Pacific Dunes, par 4
5. Beverly, par 4
6. Olympia Fields (South), par 4
7. Butler National, par 5
8. Pebble Beach, par 4
9. Dunes Club, par 4

10. Bel-Air, par 3
11. Shoreacres, par 4
12. Medinah, par 4
13. Whistling Straits, par 4
14. Bandon Dunes, par 4
15. Kapalua (Plantation), par 5
16. Cypress Point, par 3
17. Prairie Dunes, par 5
18. Riviera, par 4

[Sean Leary]

1. Spyglass Par 5
2. Ocean Course  Par 5
3. LACC Par 4
4. Royal County Down  Par 4
5. Royal Portrush  Par 4
6. Pacific Dunes  Par 4
7. SFGC   Par 3
8. Pebble Beach Par 4
9. Turnberry Par 4
10. Pasatiempo Par 4
11. Ballybunion Par 4
12. Ballyneal Par 4
13. Pine Valley Par 4
14. Old Course Par 5
15. Jasper Park Par 3
16. Merion Par 4
17. Prairie Dunes Par 5
18. North Berwick Par 4

[David Egan]

1   Merion                       4      362
2   Beverly                       5       560
3   Sea Island (Seaside)       3       215
4   Lahinch                       5       475
5   Bethpage (Black)        4      451
6   Ridgewood (Center)       4       289
7   San Fransisco               3       189
8   Lost Dunes                 5       603
9   Whistling Straits (Straits)  4       415
                                  37       3559

10   Shoreacres                       4       430
11   Ballybunion (Old)               4       446
12   Skokie                        3       225
13   North Berwick               4       365
14   Olympia Fields (North)       4       444
15   Pine Valley                       5       590
16   Cypress Point               3       225
17   Carnoustie                       4       433
18   Olympic (Lake)               4       320
                                 35      3478
                                 72      7037

[Jud_T]

gene,

i agree.  this was much more difficult than I thought, particularly given the par 72 proviso.  essentially there are some holes that simply must be included and the rest are finding the best holes to fill out the 18.  there are infinite permutations....

[Jaeger Kovich]

1 - Fenway Drivable 290 yrd Par 4
2 - Bandon Trails 214 yrd Par 3
3 - Knoll West "Redan" 180 yrd Par 3
4 - Winged Foot East 578 yrd Par 5
5 - Bethpage Black 450 yrd Par 4
6 - Kingsbarns 318 yrd par 4
7 - Friars Head 530 par 5
8 - Old Macdonald "Birritz" 180 yrd Par - 3
9 - Whitensville "Cape" 416 yrd Par 4

10 - Winged Foot West 190 yrd Par 3
11 - Quaker Ridge short 375 yrd Par 4
12 - The Old Course "Heathery" 315 yrd Par 4
13 - Queenwood 515 yrd par 5
14 - Carnoustie "Spectacles" 475 yrd Par 5
15 - Bayonne 293 yrd par 4
16 - Bandon Dunes 363 yrd par 4
17 - Yale 430 yrd Par 4
18 - Bethpage Red 460 Par 4

Out - par 35 3156 yrd
In -   par 37 3416 yrd

Total par 72 - 6572 yards

Wow - that was a lot harder then I thought it would be... I payed Zero attention to par, so my results are a little shocking at par 72... not that it matters.

[Matt_Ward]

Jaeger:

Help me out -- I live in NJ and have played the 3rd at The Knoll plenty of times -- but for it to be included among an all-star listing of holes from throughout the world ?

I like the hole too but would not have it among my all-18 -- in fact, it would not even make honorable mention. Not because it isn't a fine hole but because the level of competition is that much higher for it to fit into that mix.

Gents:

It's fine to list private clubs into the mix but many people here on GCA and those that lurk likely don't have the access to get on those layouts. Good to see people listing some public available holes -- be more interested if people can post an all-18 public course. Even better if the holes selected come from places that are under $150 to play.

[JESII]

Matt,

With all due respect, start a thread with those as the criteria if that's what you want to discuss.

What advantage is it to me if Rustic Canyon has a great hole but I would have to fly across the country to see it, but I can sign up for a Golf Association of Philadelphia event and play Merion?

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

Because you have access to Merion -- the bulk of people do not.

Happy to start another thread. But far too many "insiders" here only talk about the elite places that few people will likely ever play.

Your concern has been noted -- I trust mine has been as well. With all due respect too.

[Tom Birkert]

This was very difficult. I wanted to include holes which encouraged risk / reward, had reachable par 5s and iconic par 3s. I hope to be able to make a better 18 in a few years!!

1st – Oakmont, Par 4
2nd – Merion, Par 5
3rd – NGLA, Par 4
4th – Royal St George's Par 4
5th – Pine Valley Par 3
6th – Sunningdale New Par 5
7th - Shinnecock Par 3,
8th – Muirfield Par 4
9th – Loch Lomond Par 4

10th – Riviera Par 4
11th – Rustic Canyon Par 4
12th – Sunningdale Old Par 4
13th – Morfontaine Par 3
14th – Friar's Head Par 5
15th – Bethpage Black Par 4
16th – Cypress Point Par 3
17th – Spyglass Hill Par 4
18th – Pebble Beach Par 5

[Jud_T]

Tom,

Great list but I find the 18th at Pebble a bit of a letdown, particularly given the other stellar names on your list...Were you just trying to find a final par 5 to get to par 72 or do you really think it's one of the best holes you've ever played?

[Tom Birkert]

Jud - I did want to get it to a par 72, I liked the idea of a par 5 to finish with, bringing the possibilities of eagles and doubles (or worse) and I couldn't think of a better finishing par 5 that I've played to complete the 18.

[Jim Franklin]

Tom,

Great list but I find the 18th at Pebble a bit of a letdown, particularly given the other stellar names on your list...Were you just trying to find a final par 5 to get to par 72 or do you really think it's one of the best holes you've ever played?

Wow, #18 at Pebble a let down . I almost selected that for my course, but love #8 so much I had to rearrange some holes.

And Matt, I do believe there are a great many people on this site (yo included) that can play some of the great courses in this country and the world for that matter. I do understand where you are coming from, but all Ultimate 18 hole course is any course not just public access.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

Great list but I find the 18th at Pebble a bit of a letdown, particularly given the other stellar names on your list...Were you just trying to find a final par 5 to get to par 72 or do you really think it's one of the best holes you've ever played?

Wow, #18 at Pebble a let down . I almost selected that for my course, but love #8 so much I had to rearrange some holes.

And Matt, I do believe there are a great many people on this site (yo included) that can play some of the great courses in this country and the world for that matter. I do understand where you are coming from, but all Ultimate 18 hole course is any course not just public access.

Jim,

You know 18 at PB really is a stinker.  Between the ocean waves crashing, the sea lions barking,  the risk reward nature of the hole, its terrible location, the horrendous views, the shack of a clubhouse behind....I'm surprised that hole even exists!!   

[JESII]

Kalen,

Hate to do this to you again, but can you expand on the "risk-reward nature"?

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

Hate to do this to you again, but can you expand on the "risk-reward nature"?

Sure,

On the tee shot - One can "risk" challenging the hazard and bite off more by going left.  The "reward" is a shorter shot in that will also avoid the trees inteferring on the 2nd shot.

On the approach shot - One can also "risk" challenging the ocean again to either go for the green and/or being in better position for the 3rd shot in.  The "rewards" are either being on in 2 or having a shorter approach in and far enough left so the greenside tree does not stymie the next shot.

[JESII]

It's been 10 years since I was there, are people regularly hitting the green in two these days?

[Kalen Braley]

It's been 10 years since I was there, are people regularly hitting the green in two these days?

Thats a good question....but whether or not they go for the green, it doesn't change the risk/reward on both the tee shot and 2nd shot.

On a side note, I do recall seeing some GCA.com discussion that postulated 18 is actually a better hole now because it has started to become reachable for not just the pros. With the additional option now tempting many to go home in 2, its only become more interesting.

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