[Bill Satterfield]

I've been working on a list for my website that includes the Ultimate 18 Hole course.  To construct the list however, there are some ground rules:

1.  The holes have to come from a course that you've played and it is being evaluated from the tips.
2.  You cannot use more than one hole from one course.
3.  The hole you select must represent that same hole number at your course (i.e. Cypress Point 16th has to be the 16th hole on your Fantasy 18)
4.  Lastly, the course must add up to a Par 72.

It can be a difficult task to determine.  For example, I thought for sure I would use the 9th hole from Maidstone, but by doing so that would eliminate the 9th hole from Yale.  After looking it over I decided I was OK taking the 14th hole from Maidstone instead of the 9th in order to make room for Yale's biarritz hole.  There are a million combinations you can work through, but here is a list that I came up with for me:

  1.  Spyglass Hill Golf Course, 595 yard Par 5 (Pebble Beach, CA)
  2.  Sebonack Golf Club, 474 yard Par 4 (Southampton, NY)
  3.  National Golf Links of America, 426 yard Par 4 - Alps (Southampton, NY)
  4.  Bethpage State Park (Black), 517 yard Par 5 (Farmingdale, NY)
  5.  Bandon Dunes, 445 yard Par 4 (Bandon, OR)
  6.  Riviera Country Club, 175 yard Par 3 (Pacific Palisades, CA)
  7.  Club at Pradera, 594 yard Par 5 (Parker, CO)
  8.  Pebble Beach Golf Links, 416 yard Par 4 (Pebble Beach, CA)
  9.  The Course at Yale, 213 yard Par 3 (New Haven, CT)
  10. Rock Creek Cattle Company, 632 yard Par 5 (Deer Lodge, MT)
  11. Club at Black Rock, 413 yard Par 4 (Coeur d'Alene, ID)
  12. Gozzer Ranch Golf Club, 364 yard Par 4 (Harrison, ID)
  13. Pacific Dunes, 444 yard Par 4 (Bandon, OR)
  14. Maidstone Club (West), 148 yard Par 3 (East Hampton, NY)
  15. Desert Canyon Resort, 690 yard Par 5 (Orondo, WA)
  16. Cypress Point Golf Club, 222 yard Par 3 (Pebble Beach, CA)
  17. Redlands Mesa Golf Club, 218 yard Par 3 (Grand Junction, CO)
  18. Oakmont Country Club, 484 yard Par 4 (Oakmont, PA)

Par:  72 - Yards:  7470

I would like to see some other people post some lists.  I know there are some incredible Fantasy courses out there!

[Martin Toal]

Hey Bill, have you heard the good news? There are golf courses outside the US now.

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:

I should be flattered, since you've got three of our holes on your list.

But I am more surprised to see that you don't have a single par-4 under 400 yards.  Those might be the first holes I would pick for my own eclectic course.

[Shane Wright]

Damn Bill, now why did you have to go ahead and start a thread like this...I have deadlines to hit today. 

I just lost focus! 

I'll post mine a little later.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian Andrew had a really good 18 hole course when we did a similar exercise a couple of years ago.  Don't remember if he has actually played all the 18 holes he listed, though.

[Steve Salmen]

Of the courses I have played, I think this is the absolute best I could come up with.  It's completely my opinion and I'm satisfied with the holes I've chosen.  I acknowledge that the par 4s are quite long and I only have a rough idea of the distance.  I don't think I'm off by too much.  Here goes:

1   Machrihanish    Par 4    425 yds
2   Dornoch         Par 3    177 yds  (my favorite par 3 in the world)
3   Prestwick        Par 5    490 yds
4   Pacific Dunes   Par 4    465 yds
5   Bandon Dunes Par 4    445 yds
6   Carnoustie      Par 5    560 yds
7   Chicago          Par 3    210 yds
8   Piping Rock     Par 4    435 yds
9   Yale               Par 3    215 yds
10  Shoreacres     Par 4    450 yds (one of my top 3 favorite par 4s)
11  TOC              Par 3    165 yds
12  Elie               Par 4     465 yds (one of my top 3 favorite par 4s)
13  North BerwickPar 4     345 yds (one of my top 3 favorite par 4s)
14  Sandwich      Par 5     520 yds
15  Muirfield        Par 4     410 yds (right hand side tee only)  My favorite hole on my favorite course
16  Birkdale         Par 4     420 yds
17  San Francisco Par 4     425 yds 
18  Pebble BeachPar 4     535 yds

                      Par 72       7157 yds  (not exact but pretty close)

Feel free to correct my yardages, I don't take my scorecards to work.

[Ben Stephens]

Here goes Ultimate 18 hole course based on holes that I have played:

1   Royal Liverpool (430 yards par 4) - OOB all the way down the right
2   Royal Porthcawl (450 yards par 4) - Great location for a green by the beach
3   Royal County Down (475 yards par 4) - Awesome par 4
4   Royal St Georges (485 yards par 4) - prefer to play this as a strong par 4 rather than a short par 5
5   Woodhall Spa (155 yards par 3) - Best short par 3 I have played!
6   Panmure (415 yards par 4) - Hogan's bunker designed by the man himself!
7   Luffenham Heath (395 yards par 4) - Best hole in Rutland UK
8   Royal West Norfolk (485 yards par 5) - Best strategic par 5 I have played
9   Royal Lytham St Annes (165 yards par 3) - A very deceptive short par 3 protected by loads of bunkers!

OUT    3455yards    par 35

10   Cavendish (420 yard par 4) - one of the best par 4's from tee to green risk reward hole
11   Pyle and Kenfig (540 yards par 5) - a great par 5 but if they used skyline green instead it would have been world class!
12   Elie (470 yards par 4) – great long par 4 by the beach with large green
13   Notts (245 yards par 3) – Best long par 3 I have played
14   Ganton (285 yards par 4) – Great short par 4 so underrated by many
15   Turnberry (205 yards par 3) – Ca Canny!
16   North Berwick (370 yards par 4) – one of the greatest greens in golf!
17   Carnoustie (460 yards par 4) – one of my favourites – a thinking hole
18   Hunstanton (440 yards par 4) – great finishing hole to plateau green in front of clubhouse

IN   3395 yards   par 35
TOTAL   6850 yards   par 70
Well well – I did not end up with a 7000 yard monster – this would have been an awesome course in terms of rhythm and balance not forgetting the quirkiness!


For those who dont know Luffenham Heath here is a pic of the 7th hole from the tee - the green is a 4 tier massive green

[Jim Colton]

Bill,

 I haven't played all of these from the tips, but I hope that doesn't automatically discredit my ability to compile this list.

  It's difficult picking just one hole from each course.  Overall, I can think of actual courses that I rather play than this one.

1   Bandon Trails   4, 392 yds
2   Greywalls   4, 425 yds
3   Whistling Straits   3, 183
4   Bethpage Black   5, 517
5   Pinehurst No. 2   4, 442
6   Carnoustie   5, 578
7   Ballyneal   4, 352
8   Crystal Downs   5, 550
9   Kingsley Club   3, 157
Par 37, 3596
      
10   Sand Hills   4, 470
11   Black Mesa   3, 172
12   Arcadia Bluffs   4, 431
13   Pacific Dunes   4, 423
14   Blackwolf Run - Meadow Valleys   4, 444
15   Bandon Dunes   3, 163
16   Blackwolf Run - River   5, 620
17   St Andrews (Old)   4, 455
18   Harbourtown   4, 452
Par 35, 3630 yds
Total 72, 7226

[Bill Satterfield]

Bill:

I should be flattered, since you've got three of our holes on your list.

But I am more surprised to see that you don't have a single par-4 under 400 yards.  Those might be the first holes I would pick for my own eclectic course.

I have one sub-400 yard par four in there.  It is the driveable 12th at Gozzer Ranch.

[Chip Gaskins]

Bill

I could not make par 72 work and I included two holes from Shinnecock (I figured you wouldn't mind being I played it with you :-)...

Fun exercise.  My routing has too many par 4s in a row at the end of the front nine, and I have two longish par 3s about the same distance...but oh well.

1) Sand Hills (Par 5, 550 Yards)
2) Ballyneal (Par 4 490 Yards)
3) Oakmont (Par 4, 430 Yards)
4) Royal County Down (Par 3, 215 Yards)
5) Royal Portrush (Par 4, 385 Yards)
6) Chicago Golf Club (Par 4, 395 Yards)
7) Crystal Downs (Par 4, 330 Yards)
8 ) Pebble Beach (Par 4, 416 Yards)
9) Prairie Dunes (Par 4, 450 Yards)
Out - Par = 36 / Yards = 3,661

10) Shinnecock Hills (Par 4, 410 Yards)
11) Waterville (Par 5, 506 Yards)
12) Augusta National (Par 3, 165 Yards)
13) Pine Valley (Par 4, 450 Yards)
14) Shinnecock Hills (Par 4, 445 Yards)
15) Cypress Point (Par 3, 140 Yards)
16) The Old Course (Par 4, 381 Yards)
17) Merion (Par 3, 221 Yards)
18) Olympic Club (Par 4, 355 Yards)
In - Par 34  / Yards = 3,073

Par = 70
Yards = 6,736

Bandon Trails #13, Pasatempio #16, National Golf Links #1, Tobacco Road #11, Pacific Dunes #3, SFGC #3 all were very close to making it...wow, what a hard exercise....now I have wasted an hour of my day, thank Bill  

[Bill Satterfield]

Hey Bill, have you heard the good news? There are golf courses outside the US now.

Martin, no, I didn't know there was golf outside the U.S.  When did they start doing that?!  Has it been received well?

[Bill Satterfield]

Chip, that is interesting you had #10 at Shinnecock on my list because I also had it but ended up throwing Rock Creek in there and dropping Lakota Canyon from the #18 spot.  Shinnecock in the #14 spot is great though - wonderful hole!  I haven't played Prairie Dunes yet but #9 most be pretty special because I would have thought you would have had Maidstone in there.

[Bill_McBride]

I really love short par 4s so there are some in here:

1     Royal Liverpool             Par 4
2     Cuscowilla                     Par 5
3     Pasatiempo                   Par 3
4     Royal St Georges          Par 4
5     Friars Head                    Par 4
6     Crystal Downs               Par 4
7     Royal Co Down             Par 3
8     NGLA                            Par 4
9     Cypress Point               Par 4

10    Alwoodley                    Par 4
11    Pacific Dunes               Par 3
12    Royal Cinque Ports      Par 4
13    Rye                             Par 4
14    St Andrews Old            Par 5
15    North Berwick              Par 3
16    Valley Club                   Par 4
17    Muirfield                       Par 5
18    Pebble Beach               Par 5

                                          Par 72

[Jim Colton]

Bill,

  Interesting exercise.  No love for Wolf Creek?  Did you consider any holes from Ballyneal or did you not make it that deep down into your rankings?

[JNC Lyon]

All of the lists above are from the creme de la creme of golf courses around the world.  Since I have more limited experience with great golf courses, my list will have holes from great courses and less well-known courses.  However, each hole is unique and phenomenal in its own way:

1) Yeamans Hall Club, Par 4, 430 Yards
2) Oak Hollow Golf Course, Par 5, 480 Yards
3) Hackensack Golf Club, Par 3, 230 Yards
4) Oak Hill (West), Par 3, 140 yards (I refuse to use the yardage from the new back tees)
5) Merion, Par 4, 505 Yards (I have not played the golf course, but I walked it enough in the Walker Cup to get a bit of a feel for it)
6) CC of Buffalo, Par 3, 175 Yards
7) Fox Chapel, Par 4, 295 Yards
8. CC of Rochester, Par 4, 425 yards
9) Ravenwood Golf Club, Par 5, 570 Yards
Out) Par 35, 3,275 Yards
10) Long Shadow Golf Club, Par 4, 440 yards
11) Crag Burn Golf Club, Par 4, 370 Yards
12) St. George's, Par 4, 380 Yards
13) Oak Hill (East), Par 5, 600 Yards
14) The Ocean Course at Kiawah Island, Par 3, 200 Yards
15) Leatherstocking Golf Course, Par 5, 480 Yards
16) Garden City Golf Club, Par 4, 410 Yards
17) Teugega Country Club, Par 4, 430 Yards
18) The Country Club (Clyde/Squirrel), Par 4, 440 Yards
In) Par 37, 3,760 Yards
Total) Par 72, 7,035 Yards

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

  Interesting exercise.  No love for Wolf Creek?  Did you consider any holes from Ballyneal or did you not make it that deep down into your rankings?

Which "Bill?"

If me, I haven't been to either Wolf Creek (where is it?) or Ballyneal.  But hope to!

[Jim Colton]

Sorry, Bill S.  He and his partner in crime have Wolf Creek in their top 10.

http://www.golfcoursegurus.com/rankings/top100.php

[Mike Nuzzo]

Par 72 is for p~$$ie$

Was that line in "I'm on a Doak?"
If not it should have been....

[Bill Satterfield]

Sorry, Bill S.  He and his partner in crime have Wolf Creek in their top 10.

http://www.golfcoursegurus.com/rankings/top100.php

Jim, I love Wolf Creek but it is simply a matter of trying to fit everything in.  If I worked at it some more I could probably work the par five 17th from Wolf Creek into the picture.  I've gone through so many scenarios that it is probably a bit crazy.

As far as Ballyneal goes, I think it is a great track but I'm not as deep in love with it as many people on this site are.  Heck, I didn't even work Shinnecock Hills, Fishers Island, Castle Pines, or other courses I love into the final product.  In the end, there were certain holes for me that were non-negotiable i.e., Yale #9, Cypress #16, and Pebble #8.  Then it is a matter of "fitting" everything else in given the criteria.  I love Shinnecock's 9th hole, Fishers Island's 4th hole, Maidstone's 9th hole, Oakmont's 3rd hole, and others but something has to find the cutting room floor in the end.

[Jim Colton]

Sorry, Bill S.  He and his partner in crime have Wolf Creek in their top 10.

http://www.golfcoursegurus.com/rankings/top100.php

Jim, I love Wolf Creek but it is simply a matter of trying to fit everything in.  If I worked at it some more I could probably work the par five 17th from Wolf Creek into the picture.  I've gone through so many scenarios that it is probably a bit crazy.

As far as Ballyneal goes, I think it is a great track but I'm not as deep in love with it as many people on this site are.  Heck, I didn't even work Shinnecock Hills, Fishers Island, Castle Pines, or other courses I love into the final product.  In the end, there were certain holes for me that were non-negotiable i.e., Yale #9, Cypress #16, and Pebble #8.  Then it is a matter of "fitting" everything else in given the criteria.  I love Shinnecock's 9th hole, Fishers Island's 4th hole, Maidstone's 9th hole, Oakmont's 3rd hole, and others but something has to find the cutting room floor in the end.

Bill,

 I hear ya.  I don't have anything from The Ocean Course and a couple others that I would put in my top tier.  You certainly have a bunch at the top that you've played just this year.  Actually, I tried coming up w/ an 18 from courses that I've played just this year (the complete list is: Ballyneal, Sand Hills, Kingsley, Crystal Downs, Olympia Fields - North/South, Harbourtown, The Mines, Kemper Lakes and Foxford Hills (Chicago)).  Obviously you can't restrict to one per course when you've only played 10 courses!

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

two gaps still to fill... this exercise proves how few great par 5s there are in this world.

1 - Yeamans Hall 400 yard par 4
2 - Sedgefield CC 420 yard par 4
3 - Pinehurst #2 320 yard par 4
4 - Seminole 460 yard par 4
5 -
6 - East Lake 155 yard par 3
7 - Old Town 410 yard par 4
8 - Greenbrier (Old White) 180 yard par 3
9 - Eagle Point 420 yard par 4
10 - Kingwood 400 yard par 4
11 - CCNC (Dogwood) 400 yard par 4
12 - Cape Fear CC 430 yard par 4
13 - Greensboro CC (Farm) 540 yard par 5
14 -
15 - Hound Ears 100 yard par 3
16 - TPC Sawgrass 500 yard par 5
17 - Mid Ocean 195 yard par 3
18 - Old North State 540 yard par 5

[Jud_T]

ok-here goes:

1. Prestwick Golf Club- 346 yd. par 4
2. Lawsonia Links- 430 yd. par 4
3. Westhampton Country Club- 170 yd. par 3
4. Lahinch Golf Club- 475 yd. par 5
5. Pinehurst #2- 485 yd. par 4
6. Pacific Dunes- 320 yd. par 4
7. Pine Needles- 455 yd. par 4
8. Pebble Beach- 416 yd. par 4
9. Kingsley Club- 160 yd. par 3
10. Fenway Golf Club- 450 yd. par 4
11. Shoreacres- 380 yd. par 4
12. Tamarack Country Club- 220 yd. par 3
13. Royal County Down- 444 yd. par 4
14. Waterville Golf Club- 455 yd. par 4
15. Lost Dunes Golf Club- 505 yd. par 5
16. Ballybunion Golf Club- 490 yd. par 5
17. The Old Course St. Andrews- 460 yd. par 4
18. Carnoustie Golf Club- 444 yd. par 4

par 72 7105 yards...boy the back nine looks tough, better make it a double at the turn!  This is a great exercise and gives us laymen a wee taste of what all these GCA's have to struggle with in terms of fitting in holes, sequencing, etc...

[Jim Franklin]

This was a cool exercise. I came up with two courses, never using the same course twice. I would prefer a par 70, but went with the par 72 on each.

1. Oakmont 481 par 4
2. Pine Valley 368 par 4 (best green in golf)
3. NGLA 426 par 4
4. Lost Dunes 525 par 5
5. Long Cove 317 par 4
6. Baltimore CC 584 par 5
7. Ballyneal 352 par 4
8. Pebble Beach 418 par 4
9. Crystal Downs 175 par3
10. Friars Head 200 par 3
11. Rock Creek Cattle Co 439 par 4
12. Chicago GC 440 par 4
13. Pacific Dunes 444 par 4
14. Sand Hills 508 par 5
15. Shadow Creek 438 par 4
16. Cypress Point 222 par 3
17. Shinnecock Hills 179 par 3
18. Sebonack 570 par 5

Course #2

1. Kingsley Club 571 par 5
2. Pete Dye GC 435 par 4
3. Oak Hill (east) 211 par 3
4. Fishers Island 397 par 4
5. Old Sandwich 336 par 4
6. The Country Club 310 par 4
7. Prairie Dunes 525 par 5
8. Somerset Hills 230 par 3
9. Estancia 571 par 5
10. Riviera 315 par 4
11. Black Rock 418 par 4
12. Southern Hills 458 par 4
13. Victoria National 383 par 4
14. Black Diamond 529 par 5
15. Chambers Bay 172 par 3
16. Wade Hampton 489 par 4
17. Whistling Straits 222 par 3
18. Merion 463 par 4

[JC Jones]

Good for you Jim for using Crystal Downs #9 in there.  I dont think that hole gets the credit it deserves.  Largely because it follows one of the great par 5's in the world and also because, as legend goes, the hole was a complete after thought. 

I happen to think the hole is brilliant, although I've played with a member there who thinks otherwise.  It is polarizing for sure but I'm with you, I think its great.

[Jim Franklin]

Good for you Jim for using Crystal Downs #9 in there.  I dont think that hole gets the credit it deserves.  Largely because it follows one of the great par 5's in the world and also because, as legend goes, the hole was a complete after thought. 

I happen to think the hole is brilliant, although I've played with a member there who thinks otherwise.  It is polarizing for sure but I'm with you, I think its great.

My one time there I had a tap in for birdie. It was a whisker shy of an ace so I like it.

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