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Jud_T

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First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« on: October 08, 2009, 01:10:29 PM »
Here's Jason Sobel's analysis of the first round pairings:

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/prescup09/news/story?id=4496803

Thoughts? Anyone care? Can this thing ever hold a candle to the Ryder Cup?
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tony Weiler

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2009, 02:00:27 PM »
I enjoy it.  It's still some of the best players in the World, and many we won't see for some time.  It's not the Ryder Cup, but it's still fun to watch.  IMHO
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Jim Franklin

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2009, 02:12:55 PM »
I think they should change the rules to the following. If we win the Ryder Cup, we play in the President's Cup the following year. If we lose, Europe plays. Ryder Cup always pits us versus Europe, but the winner plays in the President's Cup. What do you think of that?
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Mr Hurricane

Jud_T

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2009, 02:17:24 PM »
Otherwise, I'd make the LOSER of the Ryder Cup play in the PC  ;)
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Kalen Braley

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 02:17:59 PM »
Quote from: Jim Franklin on October 08, 2009, 02:12:55 PM
I think they should change the rules to the following. If we win the Ryder Cup, we play in the President's Cup the following year. If we lose, Europe plays. Ryder Cup always pits us versus Europe, but the winner plays in the President's Cup. What do you think of that?

Jim,

I couldn't agree more... it would make the action/stakes that much higher and would probably increase interest among both events!!

I'd be curious to know how much longer the rest of the world is under contract for the Presidents Cup, they could threaten to bail if the format isn't changed, ditto for the Europeans.
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Mark Smolens

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2009, 06:08:52 PM »
I've long proposed a three-way competition, combining the Ryder and President's Cups.  1/2 of the US team plays foursomes/fourball against the Euros, and 1/ plays against the ROW.  Same with the singles.  Would make the Captains' jobs very tough, but that way you'd also eliminate the every year event that the US players now deal with. . .
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Bill_McBride

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2009, 10:40:56 PM »
Quote from: DSchmidt on October 08, 2009, 02:16:18 PM
I think they should just get rid of the President's Cup and let the ROW into the Ryder Cup the way you suggest, so that if we lose the Ryder Cup in 2010, our next shot at it would be 2014 because ROW would get their shot in 2012 against Europe, and we'd get winner, like pick-up basketball.

Skins vs shirts could get ugly.
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Tim Pitner

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 11:22:29 PM »
I can't understand why one would consider messing with the Ryder Cup.  Accommodating the President's Cup is certainly no reason to do so.  The U.S. players don't seem to mind playing the two events as much as they used to.  In fact, as Ernie Els commented, it's probably helped them to identify successful pairings.  BTW, the U.S. is not the only team to play multiple team events--the Euros play the Seve Cup and something called the Royal Trophy, I believe. 

The President's Cup is a decent event--it doesn't approach the Ryder Cup, but it has more of an identity than it used to.  Taking the event out of the U.S. on every other occasion was a necessary and welcome change. 
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Kalen Braley

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2009, 08:45:01 AM »
Quote from: David Cronan on October 08, 2009, 11:31:06 PM
Hate to sound the cynic but it's quite obvious the the President's Cup was developed for the purpose of making a boatload of cash for the PGA. Do you honestly think Finchem et al would allow Europe to take a piece of that pie? Wake up!!!

David,

This is why I was asking was the contract structure looks like.  I'd be generally curious as to what the International and European Teams are "compelled" to do.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 09:59:07 AM by Kalen Braley »
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Dan_Callahan

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2009, 09:54:53 AM »
Do people actually feel sorry for a bunch of pros being "forced" to play one more weekend of golf?

I would LOVE to have that problem.
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tlavin

Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2009, 12:52:33 PM »
Watch the President's Cup?  Hell, no.  It's an unnecessary event that the players are compelled to play in and it's being played on a muni!  The President's Cup has "made" the career of exactly one golfer: Chris DiMarco, one of the most overrated, underachieving ciphers in the game.  I saw a commercial yesterday that says that he, the "President's Cup hero" will be in the booth today...

No thanks, Bunky.
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Doug Ralston

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2009, 04:48:59 PM »
Well, I thought the President's Cup was fun and was glad to watch. So few team events get recognition in golf.

Playing on a muni did not seem to lack challenge for these guys, and some of the holes were very exciting to watch.

I understand the next one is in Australia. Anyone know what course? [Hoping for Royal Melbourne, which gets much discussion here but I have not seen played yet]

Doug
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Where is everybody? Where is Tommy N? Where is John K? Where is Jay F? What has happened here? Has my absence caused this chaos? I'm sorry. All my rowdy friends have settled down ......... somewhere else!

Rick Shefchik

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 05:42:10 PM »
It will be at Royal Melbourne...and I'll definitely watch. I love team golf competitions.
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Jud_T

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2009, 06:28:35 AM »
How come the U.S. can win this thing in their sleep and they continually suck in the Ryder Cup?
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Phil McDade

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2009, 08:08:58 AM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on October 12, 2009, 06:28:35 AM
How come the U.S. can win this thing in their sleep and they continually suck in the Ryder Cup?

Jud:

I think for the Euros, the Ryder Cup is the sporting equivalent of WW III -- it's a huge deal for them, in part because they were beat up for so long until about the mid-80s, when the rise of Euro stars like Seve, Langer and others made the team more competitive (along with the obvious expansion to all of Europe.) I also think the bonding that comes along with a lot of the Euros playing together on the Euro tour helps. And they've had great leaders as captains -- Seve, Langer, Jacklin, Torrance were all inspirational guys from the player's perspective. Compared to Sutton, Strange and a few others on the US who were less so.

And Euro golf is generally under-rated by most Americans, I'd argue -- the difference in talent, truncated over 18 holes (or less) per match, is not that great.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2009, 01:04:42 PM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on October 12, 2009, 06:28:35 AM
How come the U.S. can win this thing in their sleep and they continually suck in the Ryder Cup?

The US looked pretty good last year.
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Jim Nugent

Re: First round President's Cup pairings: Analysis
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2009, 03:53:08 AM »
Quote from: Jud Tigerman on October 12, 2009, 06:28:35 AM
How come the U.S. can win this thing in their sleep and they continually suck in the Ryder Cup?

Since the early 1980s, Europe and the U.S. have been pretty close in abilities.  So I think the randomness factor may explain a lot of results. 

Take the last competition.  IMO the Euro squad had the better players.  Yet the U.S. team won handily.  Every other RC since around 1991, IMO the U.S. had the better team.  Yet Europe won most of those cups. 

It's a 3-day event.  The format differs from anything else these guys compete in.  On any given day, the 300th ranked player can beat number one.  That is even true over a 72-hole tournament. 

There isn't that much difference between the two teams now anyway.  That statistical randomness in golf, where Tiger can miss the cut at the British Open and 59-year-old Tom Watson comes an inch or so from winning the same event, may acccount for the winners, as much as or more than anything else.     
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