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John Kirk

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Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« on: October 01, 2009, 01:36:49 PM »
About a year ago, I wrote an essay called "The Four Biases of Course Evaluation", or something like that.  I received a good deal of feedback, and thought I should revise and expand the essay.  It took me a while.  I work pretty slowly, and have lots of writing projects I'm dabbling with.  Not completely happy with every word, but it's good enough to submit.  I hope you like it.


Bias is defined in dictionary.com as follows:

"a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice."

In this case, we define bias as any psychological prejudice which influences golf course evaluation, an experience or emotion that prevents pure objective analysis.  A preference would indicate choosing between two or more types of previous experiences.

For several years now, I've observed how people evaluate courses, and see some patterns.  Here is a list of biases that affect our evaluation skills:

1.  Regional or Hometown Bias
2.  Home Course or Repeat Play Bias

The course’s proximity to one’s home, and how many times that course has been played, strongly correlate to the perception of a course's quality.  Golfers often cite a course in their state or metropolitan area as the best, though this can also be attributed to repeat play bias.  A great golf course gets better with repeat play, as the golfer learns the subtleties and permutations, only revealed with multiple plays.  I’ve been "blown away" by my first round at a course (Riviera, Merion, but not Crystal Downs or Winged Foot), but that is the exception, not the rule, and can easily be attributed to my mood on that given day.  I have now played Crystal Downs four times; each new visit reveals something new and exciting.  Even Pacific Dunes required a second play before I fully embraced it.

I find it hard to accept that even the veteran golf rater can accurately assess a course with one round.  The trained observer can look for certain features, and a course's beauty should factor into evaluation, but how can you know how it plays unless you play it?  I suppose a large sample of raters, many of whom base their rating on one experience, is a reasonable substitute.

It is heartening that golfers regularly cite courses near their home as among the best.   Home is where the heart is.  There is a noticeable correlation between a golfer’s hometown and his evaluation of local courses, and a strong bias for the courses we play the most.  Players love their home course, and a good golf course seems better and better with repeated rounds.

3.   Expectations or Reputation Bias

I believe most course raters have a reasonably open mind when playing a new course.  Some are jaded by a lofty pedigree, others not so much. Expectations get in the way of clear analysis.  Having high or low expectations can change one's opinion dramatically.  Best to keep expectations in check.

Experience makes a tougher critic.  What applies to golf courses applies to other artistic efforts.  Whether it’s movies, popular music or golf courses, the older I get, the more difficult to impress me with a new effort, because I've seen and heard so many. But when I find something new and special, it's a great gift, and new revelations are sweeter with age and experience.

A course’s reputation can influence both ways.  If I play a highly rated design, I tend to be a tougher critic, and often find my high expectations weren’t met.  Conversely, the elation of playing somewhere special may heighten the senses and appreciation of the moment.

4.   Cost Bias
5.   Remoteness Bias

It has been proven that people enjoy expensive luxuries.  Golf courses are no exception.  When something costs dearly, the importance of enjoying that extravagance increases, and compromises objectivity.
 
There’s something special about traveling far to play a course.  In the last couple years, I've had some nice tournament rounds away from home.  Inside, I know I've traveled all this way for a special moment, and I'm going to make the most of it.  As a result, I'm a pretty good “away” player, perhaps one point worse, index-wise.

There's a psychological need to justify the effort and expense.  Of course, if Sand Hills and Ballyneal were right down the street, I'd try and join both!

6.   Performance Bias
7.   Mood Bias

Did your play affect your opinion?  Were you in a good mood that day?  The happy player in command of his golf game is more likely to evaluate a course positively. One’s mood, good or sour, may be the greatest impediment to objective evaluation based on a single round.  Here are a few of my personal experiences, which influence my opinion on this subject.

I played Plainfield a few years ago, and I was really tired that day.  I shot an 87 and was kind of grumpy.  Although I wasn't very complimentary at the time, I eventually realized how much I enjoyed the course, and highly recommend Plainfield.  The next day, I played Winged Foot (West), and played well, hitting only one fairway but still got around in 80 strokes.  Winged Foot (West) disappointed me.  I thought the front nine terrain was boring, and I didn't misread a putt all day.  I am friends with a member, and hope to have a second crack at it.  I suspect I’d like it better the second time around.

I played Arcadia Bluffs about three years ago.  I birdied the first four holes and shot 75, with seven birdies, a personal record.  I evaluate Arcadia Bluffs as good, not great.  If I get seven birdies the first time out, the course must be easy to decipher.

I've played San Francisco GC twice.  The first time, about six years ago, I shot a 74 with a severe hangover, thought it was easy to decipher, and though it is an extremely impressive club and course, the course just didn't quite do it for me.  The second time, a couple years ago, I shot an 87 clean and sober, and thought San Francisco was hard as hell, and though it is an extremely impressive course, it still didn’t quite do it for me.  San Francisco GC has unsurpassed beauty, ambience and pedigree, but I believe the approach and greenside recovery strategy are somewhat one-dimensional.

8.   Amenities Bias

A bias may exist when a club anticipates a course rater visit, and “rolls out the red carpet”, treating the rater to free golf, additional perks or exceptional playing conditions.  Some raters may be swayed by the red carpet treatment; there is no clear-cut evidence but it is suspected the bias exists.  This type of bias is highly discouraged.

 9.  Miscellaneous Factors

There are a variety of miscellaneous factors that impact one’s perception of golf course quality:

A.   The enjoyment they derive from their playing partners.
B.   The level of enthusiasm their playing partners have for the course in question.
C.   Level of intoxication can have a dramatic impact.  “Wow!  This is the greatest course ever!!!”
D.   Pace of play and other factors also affect one’s mood.
E.   Some golfers value course history and age, and are biased accordingly.



Some factors that may initially be thought to bias one’s opinion are actually preferences:

I.  Course Conditioning

Course conditioning is both a preference and a tangible characteristic of the course, not subject to bias.  Some prefer soft, green conditions, while others prefer a firm, brown playing field.  The smoothness of a green is always desirable, whereas green speed is a preference.

II.  Style Preference

Course evaluators tend to prefer a familiar style of golf course, and tend to dislike a style they are unfamiliar with.  Four primary styles of golf courses:

A.  Parkland courses
B.  Linksland courses
C.  Desert mountain courses
D.  Resort courses

Some courses don't neatly fall into one category; places like Prairie Dunes or Cypress Point are unique, special places that should be prized.  Take a parkland golfer out to the windswept links or a hilly mountain layout, and there will be discomfort.  The new environment will require different navigation skills.

I had my first linksland golf experience in 1998, a visit to Scotland with my father.  My two rounds at Royal Dornoch were a revelation, the awakening to the complex challenge provided by the firm, undulating course exposed to the wind.  It was love at first sight, as my mathematical mind saw the added complexity of controlling ball trajectory, not to mention the mental rigors of a five-foot putt in a high wind.  Royal Dornoch, and especially repeat visits to Bandon Dunes, changed my life.

Golfers are often repulsed when introduced to some aspects of golf design that aficionados covet the most: the undulating green, the occasional blind shot, and the uneven lie.  Do golfers embrace these concepts with repeat exposure?

Parkland courses are a special case.  My first years playing golf were spent mostly at the Stanford University course, a wide, hilly course on oak-studded foothills, not a typical parkland design.  I did not begin golf with a positive bias to this type of course.  Older parkland courses generally share the following features:

A.  Softer playing surfaces, with dominant, mature poa annua.
B.  Large numbers of specimen (and often, non-native) trees lining the fairways.
C.  Ovoid greens, lower in the front.
D.  Sand and water hazards in traditional locations, some strategic and some penal.

I have difficulty distinguishing one parkland design from the next, and perceive parkland golf courses as a "dime a dozen", especially those built during the Golden Age of 1910-1930.  Here in Portland, Oregon, the best parkland courses, such as Eugene, Portland and Royal Oaks, have very similar playing characteristics, requiring the same soft approaches and punch out recoveries.

It's awfully tough to see beyond one’s own preferences.  A player/evaluator has difficulty comprehending and appreciating a first round at a unique new course.  If anything, uniqueness serves to identify the best golf courses.

III.  Playing Ability

The strengths and weaknesses of a golfer’s repertoire of skills may help determine the type of course he/she prefers.  I'm not an accurate driver, and find narrow, tree-lined parkland courses difficult.  This type of course does not appeal to me, and I tend to rate them accordingly.  Am I displaying personal bias?  Sure.  If you think hitting laser straight drives, punching out from under trees, and flopping sand wedges onto greens is great golf, great.  I don't.  I like wide-open, short-grass, recover-from-anywhere golf better.

If a golfer dislikes a course because their skills prevent hem from easily playing the course, there's something wrong with the course, not the golfer.  Some courses are very enjoyable for the scratch player, but nearly or totally unplayable for the average player.  Forced carries, narrow playing corridors, deep hazards, and prohibitively difficult greenside undulation make it hard for the typical golfer to stay positive.

“It’s nearly impossible for a golfer to look beyond how he or she interfaces with a course, unless the player simply walks it and studies other players."  --  George Pazin

The aforementioned Mr. Pazin is a powerful, mid-handicap player, a tough combination of skills to accommodate.  He dislikes desert golf, with its limited turf acreage and no trees lining fairways to keep balls in play, which can make his day demoralizing.  Mr. Pazin has every right to downgrade this course, based on his experience.  To cite one of my core ideas, "The golf course should accommodate that shot", and since it does not accommodate him well, the course is flawed.

IV.  Architect Preference

I mentioned my inability to distinguish the work of the great Golden Age architects.  Most eastern parkland courses look very similar to me.  The subtleties and differing philosophies have never been clearly explained to me.  I've acquired tidbits along the way, like Ross's affinity to route fairways in valleys and greens on knolls, but I can’t take ten parkland course pictures and tell you who designed them.  Distinguishing marks may disappear over time, due to maintenance practices and overzealous greens committees, leading to homogeneity.  There are experts on each architect who recognize the differences.

As a native Californian, I may discern a MacKenzie or a Thomas/Bell design from others, but that may be the familiar terrain, or the bunkering style, and not the architect.  I might confuse Willie Watson’s Sonoma Golf Club, with its golden grasses and oak-dotted hills, for another west coast architect.

I see greater variety among modern designs.  Both Tom Doak and the team of Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw build first-class courses with exciting strategy and pleasing views, but employ different philosophies using the land and defending par.  Jim Engh’s daring work is unmistakable.  Tom Fazio’s unerring eye for aesthetic detail is distinctive.  Architects present challenges that yield a certain spectrum of shots and visual enticements. Whether it’s a Coore/Crenshaw, Fazio or Engh, one’s preference is just that.

Summary

There is much discussion about the merits of each architect.  I see little predisposition to applaud our favorites and criticize others, before personally evaluating the work.  We critics generally have an open mind, though many are reluctant to criticize.  Limited support for new high profile designs implies a lack of endorsement.  Some efforts are dismissed as pedestrian, while others are given impressive reviews. We want to enjoy the new golf experience, and start with a positive attitude.

I strive for dispassionate course evaluation. I don't care about ratings, or history, or architectural pedigree.  They are meaningless distractions.  I enjoy the scenery, which is important to me.  I hit golf shots, I watch my playing partners hit golf shots, and evaluate the enjoyment we derive.  I am mindful of the inherent biases I possess, and evaluate to the best of my ability.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2024, 08:40:31 AM by John Kirk »

Richard Choi

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 01:48:02 PM »
John, a great essay and I believe this should be a mandatory reading for all raters out there.

The best way to fight bias (and discrimination as well) is to be aware of them. I think this is a great list/description for taking that first step.

David Stamm

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 02:08:28 PM »
John, I agree that it is impossible to truly evaluate the merits of a course from only one play, however, I do think that much of the design elements important to the course can be picked up on by a trained eye. Much of this can come from coming to this very site and prepare ones self for the course they about to see and pay attention to what to look for. I'm always amazed how Tommy N can see things on a first play that might otherwise get overlooked, for example. Not to speak for him, but I think alot of that comes from tendencies from certain architects and knowing where to look for those. Obviously, anything done in California by MacKenzie, Thomas, Bell, Behr, Watson, etc is something I myself am more familiar with because I live here, I've studied alot of what they have written, I've seen quite a bit of those designers work to look for similiarities to some of their other courses, and, what might be something different I have not seen them do before.


I think this is wonderful thought provoking stuff that your putting on the table and I hope this can be an informative thread for all of us.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jim Franklin

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2009, 03:02:44 PM »
Great stuff John, very well thought out.
Mr Hurricane

Mike Wagner

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2009, 03:56:05 PM »
John,

Outstanding stuff - thanks for taking the time!

Bill_McBride

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2009, 04:28:16 PM »
Good stuff, John, very thoughtful and insightful. How one plays should not be part of rating a course but it's tough. 

This should be archived as an "In My Opinion" piece for reference down the road.

Sean Leary

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2009, 05:05:30 PM »
Obviously quite good.

I was lucky enough to go with John to Ballyneal very early on, right after it was playable. I can speak to the fact that he was very hard on the course early on in terms of determining its greatness. The term he used at the time was "solid, very solid". It took him many, many rounds for him to get him past that level to where he "rates" it today.

I agree with most everything he says here.

Well done John, thank you.

Mike Sweeney

Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2009, 06:15:09 PM »

I strive for dispassionate course evaluation. I don't care about ratings, or history, or architectural pedigree.  They are meaningless distractions.  I enjoy the scenery, which is important to me.  I hit golf shots, I watch my playing partners hit golf shots, and evaluate the enjoyment we derive.  I am mindful of the inherent biases I possess, and evaluate to the best of my ability.


John,

I do disagree with you about history and architectural pedigree. I am a history guy and I remember reading Tom MacWood's Crump/Pine Valley essay the first time. Growing up in Philly I played Merion a bunch but never played Pine Valley until a few years ago. My view of Pine Valley was "how good could it be over there in Jersey!"

Then you play the place and I am thinking "Jeez, these holes are awfully good." Then you read the Club history and you start to understand the passion that goes into each hole. Then you read Tom's essay and you realize how the passion potentially overwhelmed Crump, but it produced a true masterpiece on a great but not perfect piece of property.

Now I belong to nearby Hidden Creek and Roger the owner is a Pine Valley member. Right now he, along with Bill Coore, Ian and our Super are adding a bunch of tees to lengthen AND shorten a few holes. He is something like 8 years into Hidden Creek and tweaks it just a little every year. I know that Roger has a life outside of Hidden Creek, but the changes at least come partially from the evolutional history of Pine Valley.  

In the modern world he has to get evaluations early to sell memberships. In a perfect world, should he wait for 15 or twenty five years?

Even mighty Sand Hills has made some changes in its young history.

Thus, IMO history, even at modern courses, history of the course and the site are important to properly evaluate a course. Is there a perfect course on Day 1? Thus I do not like the concept of "dispassionate course evaluation". It sounds sterile to me, and I would rather read a passionate review.

I love this video from Surfrider Foundation. It shows their passion in evaluating their environment that they surf in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYV3lHQ7sE8&NR=1

How can you evaluate Sand Hills without understanding how little was done to the site?

How can you evaluate Harborside in Chicago without understanding the history of the site as a dump?

Isn't Bandon a little better when you understand the owner's motivation to deliver a public Ireland/Scotland experience to the West Coast?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 06:16:43 PM by Mike Sweeney »

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2009, 06:29:45 PM »
Mike,
Well put.

John,
Thanks for the effort. I would say that architectural pedigree is important to me in making subsequent choices, but not the original choice.

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

John Kirk

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 07:51:59 PM »
GCA veteran and all-around great guy Mike Sweeney says:

"How can you evaluate Sand Hills without understanding how little was done to the site?
How can you evaluate Harborside in Chicago without understanding the history of the site as a dump?
Isn't Bandon a little better when you understand the owner's motivation to deliver a public Ireland/Scotland experience to the West Coast?"

Of course the development and history of great golf courses makes us feel more passionate about playing them.  I'm also saying it has nothing to do with how good the golf course is.  Conversely, I can respond:

Are you suggesting Sand Hills is a great golf course because so little sand was moved?  I say Sand Hills's greatest asset as a great golf course is its uniqueness.  It has unusual strategic challenges, like power boosts and landing zones subtly hidden by shoulders of sand.  It is spectacularly beautiful.

I've made it clear that I am convinced Ballyneal yields a more compelling array of shots, but once again, how can I possibly be unbiased, having played Ballyneal over 50 times, not to mention investing a great deal of money into the club?

I was in Bandon last week.  What does Mr. Keizer's attempt to "replicate the Irish/Scottish experience" have to do with golf course evaluation?  Regardless of intent, Mr. Keizer has created a unique golf destination that offers the complex version of golf played on a firm, windy course.  All four courses are well designed to exploit the unusual playing conditions.  Without having travaled extensively, is there any argument whether Bandon Dunes is the greatest golf resort in the world?  My conclusions have nothing to do with the Fred Flintstone size lamb shanks they serve in porcelain buckets.

I'm awfully proud that Bandon Dunes is in my home state.  But it's also 270 miles away, and requires a 4.5 - 5 hour drive to get there, so I travel a distance to get there.  Both a regional bias and a remoteness bias are in play for me.  Let's face it, it's the best resort.  We played the ten hole Old Macdonald loop.  Not only do Tom Doak and Renaissance Golf continue their fine work of recent years, they've refined and improved their contouring skills, now offering ground game shots of even higher quality.  Old Macdonald should jump into most top 100 lists in short order.

That's enough.  This serves to bump this back to the top one final time, unless I am asked to respond.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2009, 08:00:46 PM »
How about what I would call the algebra vs arithmetic bias? The algebra bias would be for abstractions like blind shots, and playing the contours. The arithmetic bias would be for everything in view and the game through the air. I suppose another way to call it would be the abstract vs concrete bias.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kirk

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2009, 08:55:21 PM »
Oh, you mean trigonometric and three-dimensional dynamic bias.  Yeah, there's that.

Jud_T

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 08:55:49 PM »
XX
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 08:48:11 PM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Carl Rogers

Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2009, 09:05:35 PM »
Is it possible on this web site to calmly and rationally discuss the process of choosing golf course raters done by the magazines?

Are there enough number of individuals with enough knowledge that can inform of us all about the qualifications, tenure, numbers and methods of the raters?

Isn't it true that the ratings of the courses are more about the raters than the courses.

RSLivingston_III

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2009, 09:39:22 PM »

Isn't it true that the ratings of the courses are more about the raters than the courses.

Not sure what you mean by this but best guess;

If the manager of the rater program gets a diverse and knowledgeable enough field, and gets the required number of ratings to average out, I assume you would get a rating system that has some meaning.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

David Kelly

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2009, 10:46:01 PM »
I believe that it is impossible for an individual to make an objective analysis of aesthetics. However what we can do is to develop our own aesthetic criteria for golf course architecture and be true to it when we evaluate golf courses either formally or informally and we can seek out the opinions of those whose aesthetic criteria meshes with our own.

That is what first drew me to "The Confidential Guide" before I had ever heard of Doak. When I first saw it in a bookstore I thought to myself that here was a guy whose opinions on what makes a good golf course meshed with my own only he had seen way more courses than I had so I could look to him for guidance.  Similarly, when I first stumbled on this website years ago while looking for information on the Myopia Hunt Club I read a number of the course reviews in the "Courses by Country" section and saw that the views expressed in the course profiles were very close to my own.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

jim_lewis

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2009, 11:10:11 PM »
I am always amused by those who seem to know how raters think and what influences them. Hell, half the time I don't even know what I think, and if I did, I ain't telling. The only thing I kinow for sure is that when I rate a course, I rate the course and nothing else, and I rate it on the day I see it. I don't care about the clubhouse, the membership, the cost, the architect, the view, the problems the architect had to overcome, what it used to look like, how it might have been different, the attitude of the staff, walking policy, etc. I will make allowances for conditioning issues that appear to be temporary. If I just stick to rating the course, the job is a lot simpler, and it can be done effectively in one visit.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

John Kirk

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2009, 12:37:31 AM »
Dear "Crusty" Jim,

I can't tell whether you are suggesting that I'm evaluating raters.  I'm not.  I'm building a comprehensive list of potential biases, and then try to distinguish them from true preferences and tastes.  Otherwise, I agree with everything you say, except the ability to accurately evaluate a course in one visit.  However, I do not rate/evaulate courses for magazines, and generally play my ball rather than look around carefully.  So I have limitations in that regard.

I played North Berwick this summer.  It was odd.  This natural looking golf course yielded some extraordinary results.  There was this strange, almost magical correlation between the shot and result, and not in a purely linear fashion.  The way the shots all played out was wonderful.

David,

Long time no see.

Here's how I evaluate a golf course.

1.  How good were the shots?
2.  Is it pretty?

David Kelly

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2009, 02:40:03 AM »

I played North Berwick this summer.  It was odd.  This natural looking golf course yielded some extraordinary results.  There was this strange, almost magical correlation between the shot and result, and not in a purely linear fashion.  The way the shots all played out was wonderful.

David,

Long time no see.


I agree with you completely regarding North Berwick. 
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Rob Rigg

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Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2009, 03:00:38 AM »
John,

An excellent and thoughtful essay - thank you for sharing.

I thought your point about remoteness bias was interesting because I feel the opposite - if I go out of my way to play a course, and pay a lot of scratch to go there, then I am expecting something pretty darn good. This may relate to your Expectations or Reputations bias though, because I would not go out of my way to play a course unless I thought it was going to kick ass. If the course does not live up to expectations, I will probably be more bummed as opposed to trying to convince myself it really was a great track and worth the effort.

I totally agree with many of your biases - including Mood, Repeat Play and Playing Ability especially.

The first time around a course, I tend to get a "feel" or "opinion" about it, but the second and third play really flush out what that means. How someone can completely rate or assess a course after one round is beyond me - I find that photos can help bring back the experience, but there is nothing like repeat plays.

The playing ability bias is interesting - I have this debate with a friend quite often - Even as a single digit handicap, if you are directionally challenged off the tee it is likely that you will not enjoy parkland courses as much as those with a little more room.
In Portland, for example, you have CECC, Royal Oaks, PGC, Waverley, etc. which are penal courses with a ton of trees. While there are definitely merits to all of these courses, I enjoy a "parkland course with space" such as Ghost Creek or Witch Hollow more because my irons, short game and putting can sometimes combine to produce an extremely enjoyable round with a nice low number. When you are throwing away a stroke every couple of holes to punch out, gong low(ish) probably ain't going to happen. There are few shots in golf more thrilling, IMO, than a "feel shot recovery" that moves sharply one direction or another from 180 yards out exactly as you envisioned and finishes on the green - That is fun golf.

Mood bias is also a biggy - I had a crap caddie when I played Bandon Dunes and I was thus in a bad mood for the round - I need to play the course again with a clean slate because it is by far my least favorite on the property and I need to figure out if it is the course or my state of mind that day. Sidenote - I think it is the course but we'll see.

For golfers who enjoy the aesthetic and the subtle - there is nothing like that first introduction to links golf. After a couple of rounds you feel like you have learned a new language and expanded your mind about tenfold. Yardage is replaced by feel, out of necessity, and your brain is fully engaged on the course like never before (or after - which means you are suffering from links withdrawal). Sorry to digress.





Mike Sweeney

Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2009, 06:31:23 AM »
Without having travaled extensively, is there any argument whether Bandon Dunes is the greatest golf resort in the world? 

John,

This is where I challenge your evaluation of "how I evaluate a golf course:"

1.  How good were the shots?
2.  Is it pretty?


During our little foray(s) here of overanalysis on GCA, you started with a well thought out essay on golf course evaluation and subconsciously moved onto questions of "greatest golf resort in the world". Greatest resort for me means a place where my wife and kids can hang out on vacation while I play golf, so I would put Disneyworld above Bandon! (not really but you get the point, and Pebble would be better from a family perspective). While Jim Lewis and others have the unique ability to compartmentalize a course from its surroundings, I do not. Where does the course end and where do the surroundings begin? Is the Pacific part of the evaluation of Pebble Beach?  Do we ignore Peconic Bay and the historic clubhouse at National Golf Links?

The wind, scenery, salt air, moisture and smell all have varying degrees of effect on the shots either physically or emotionally. The routing of the course was changed at National when the clubhouse was built, so shouldn't clubhouse positioning be part of the evaluation of a golf course? John, while we have never met, I have read many of your well thought out essays and emails, and I simply don't believe that you limit yourself to two questions of "pretty and shot values" in evaluating a golf course! If you add in conditioning to your equation, I am sure I can get you a login over at BombSquad golf!  ;)

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2009, 09:24:41 AM »
John,

I think the "is it pretty" question bears more scrutiny.  While certainly one would rather be looking out over the pacific than at farmland during one's round, I feel that scenery gets too much weight in a lot of the rankings.  Take Lawsonia versus say Torrey Pines.  I'm guessing that most folks on this site would say that Lawsonia is a far superior layout, yet Torrey is prettier.  And how much damage has Augusta National and the annual Masters telecast caused in everyone striving to overwater and plant flowerbeds, waterfalls etc. ?  You start with something unique and special and end up with no more firm fast playing conditions and donald trump!
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2009, 09:46:15 AM »
Without having travaled extensively, is there any argument whether Bandon Dunes is the greatest golf resort in the world? 

John,

This is where I challenge your evaluation of "how I evaluate a golf course:"

1.  How good were the shots?
2.  Is it pretty?


During our little foray(s) here of overanalysis on GCA, you started with a well thought out essay on golf course evaluation and subconsciously moved onto questions of "greatest golf resort in the world". Greatest resort for me means a place where my wife and kids can hang out on vacation while I play golf, so I would put Disneyworld above Bandon! (not really but you get the point, and Pebble would be better from a family perspective). While Jim Lewis and others have the unique ability to compartmentalize a course from its surroundings, I do not. Where does the course end and where do the surroundings begin? Is the Pacific part of the evaluation of Pebble Beach?  Do we ignore Peconic Bay and the historic clubhouse at National Golf Links?

The wind, scenery, salt air, moisture and smell all have varying degrees of effect on the shots either physically or emotionally. The routing of the course was changed at National when the clubhouse was built, so shouldn't clubhouse positioning be part of the evaluation of a golf course? John, while we have never met, I have read many of your well thought out essays and emails, and I simply don't believe that you limit yourself to two questions of "pretty and shot values" in evaluating a golf course! If you add in conditioning to your equation, I am sure I can get you a login over at BombSquad golf!  ;)


As a non-rater, I don't think about evaulation when playing a course.  You're right; I have oversimplified the issue by listing only two considerations.  How enjoyable is the walk? is another important question for me.  The questions "How good are the shots?", or some all-encompassing form of that question, covers a lot of ground.  I don't care about clubhouse positioning, except that it facilitates the other criteria.

I suppose "Does it smell nice?" is actually a consideration.  Assume emoticon goes here.

Carl Rogers

Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2009, 11:18:22 AM »
The problem with me about the course ratings is that all you get is the average of the average, which for me does not tell me very much (group think).  It is about the same as thumbing through the phone book, going eenie  - meanie - miney mo and randomly asking people for medical opinions.

If I were to become a course rater, I would have to quit my job (I am regular building architect), get divorced from wife of 29+ years, sell the house and devote myself to traveling the golfing world for a minimum 4 or 5 years before I could ever gain enough perspective on the subject.

From my own inexeperienced viewpoint, the first question I might ask would be "How well does this course accomodate golfers across the spectrum of abilities?"  As much as I have discussed Riverfront (the only good course I know well), it is very rough on the less skilled golfer.

Eric_Terhorst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bias and Preference in Golf Course Evaluation
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2009, 11:46:48 AM »

Here's how I evaluate a golf course.

1.  How good were the shots?
2.  Is it pretty?


John
I like this simple approach.  For me it's like this

1.  Was the day enjoyable? (yes/no)
2.  Why/why not?  


Over the years, the answers to #2 reveal the biases and preferences you've thoughtfully listed but that most of us don't analyze as carefully as you have.  Good to know and understand, though, because if I'm honest with myself I can save a lot of time and money on days I'm not likely to enjoy if I acknowledge these idiosyncrasies.  If I ask another golfer question #2 and listen carefully to the response, together with that answer and understanding of my own issues, I can get clues as to whether I should make a trek or even drive across town to play a course.  

I find the ratings publications marginally useful for identifying courses I might want to try, but ultimately they can't boil down into a quantitative rating all the variables and qualities that make a day enjoyable.  And arguing over questions such as, e.g., whether Whistling Straits or Bandon Dunes deserve their "rankings", or whether Royal County Down is better than Royal Dornoch, is in my opinion a huge waste of time.  

I find the Golf Digest "places to play" web site listings more valuable than their Top This-n-That lists because the web site listings incorporate selected golfer comments...