Lundin/Leven: a Gallant effort.

[Marty Bonnar]

Our own young Mr T Gallant at the glorious Lundin/Leven joint Links…
https://golf.com/travel/leven-lundin-scotland-top-100/
The article could perhaps have done with a tad more detail, but it’s a decent intro to the idea of the original layout! Made even more interesting with current local rumour about potential amalgamation of the two Leven clubs (not including Lundin - pity).
Cheers,
F.

[Tim Gallant]

Thanks for posting Marty! It was wonderful to play the course in its original form. The thing that struck me was how well it all ebbs and flows as a whole. Gettable stretches followed by tough stretches and so on. The variety between the holes and the green complexes really stood out and I would happily play that course on a regular basis.


The two Leven clubs did mention that there were talks about amalgamation. As ever, it's held up by agreement on details like the name of the combined club, and what clubhouse to use. But I got the impression that it will happen.


My hope in writing this is that the clubs might open the original course to the public - either around the McDonald Trophy, or another time of year. From what I gathered, there wasn't too much required in the way of different set-up. In fact, the flags still remain from their respective club(S).

[Marty Bonnar]

What end did you start from??? I think it makes a helluva difference!

[Tim Gallant]

What end did you start from??? I think it makes a helluva difference!

This year it started from Leven 1, which I believe is the original way it was played. That felt right IMHO.

[Michael Chadwick]

Very nice, Tim! You prompted me to revisit photos of my round in 2022 at Lundin, maybe in part because your claim that the composite course would be "worthy of the World Top 100" struck me as a bit of hyperbole. I found the course to be a mixed bag of sorts, though there are flashes of undeniably lovely bones. The green site of Lundin's current 4th, for example, is super. I quite liked current 6th and 7th holes, though neither of those would've been in the Old. Current 17 has outstanding land. I have the current course around Doak 4 or 5, though it doesn't take much imagination to see how its holes routed on the Old--1 through 5, 15 through 18--could punch a couple scores higher, especially if they were restored and presented at a caliber in line with Muirfield (that's asking a lot, but for a World 100 much is expected!).


This site helped me understand the old routing configuration: https://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/oldest-golf-courses/1846-leven-links/



Your article is a great nudge for me to prioritize playing Leven next time I'm in Fife, so that I can put the Old course routing together in my head. Thanks!   

[Marty Bonnar]

I’ve shared the link to the article over on the Golf Courses of Scotland Facebook group, where it’s generated a lot of interest - and favourable comment!
Cheers
F.

[Tim Gallant]

Very nice, Tim! You prompted me to revisit photos of my round in 2022 at Lundin, maybe in part because your claim that the composite course would be "worthy of the World Top 100" struck me as a bit of hyperbole. I found the course to be a mixed bag of sorts, though there are flashes of undeniably lovely bones. The green site of Lundin's current 4th, for example, is super. I quite liked current 6th and 7th holes, though neither of those would've been in the Old. Current 17 has outstanding land. I have the current course around Doak 4 or 5, though it doesn't take much imagination to see how its holes routed on the Old--1 through 5, 15 through 18--could punch a couple scores higher, especially if they were restored and presented at a caliber in line with Muirfield (that's asking a lot, but for a World 100 much is expected!).


This site helped me understand the old routing configuration: https://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/oldest-golf-courses/1846-leven-links/



Your article is a great nudge for me to prioritize playing Leven next time I'm in Fife, so that I can put the Old course routing together in my head. Thanks!   

Thanks for the post Michael. I think the 9 original holes from Lundin are brilliant, and although Tom D mentions in the Confidential Guide that they got the better of the split, I actually really enjoyed the Leven holes as well. Particularly 1, 2, 15, 16 & 18 on the original routing are all very interesting & unique holes. Taken as a collection, the green contouring throughout feels varied and interesting with front to back slopes (alla 1); some more significant slopes (like 18), and everything in the middle. I also love how well the greens often sit within the surrounds and are often just an extension of the land vs. anything built-up. You could argue 3 & 4 of Leven are just so-so, and the par-3s are good, but not spectacular. That said, the variety of the 4s more than makes up for these minor shortcomings.


The World 100 is a tough benchmark, but if it was played more often, I believe it would at least be in the discussion. For what it's worth, on a head to head with Silloth, I have it a bit ahead, and I LOVE Silloth and vote it in the world 100

[jeffwarne]

A very well written and informative essay.
Thanks Tim


Having only Played Lundin in extremely fiery nick, I do need to see Leven, and hopefully one day the Old.

[Niall C]

Both courses are well worth a play, especially the holes closer to the water. Lundin might generally be maintained in better condition but I tend to think that Leven is more interesting architecturally.


Niall

[Alex_Hunter]

Very nice, Tim! You prompted me to revisit photos of my round in 2022 at Lundin, maybe in part because your claim that the composite course would be "worthy of the World Top 100" struck me as a bit of hyperbole. I found the course to be a mixed bag of sorts, though there are flashes of undeniably lovely bones. The green site of Lundin's current 4th, for example, is super. I quite liked current 6th and 7th holes, though neither of those would've been in the Old. Current 17 has outstanding land. I have the current course around Doak 4 or 5, though it doesn't take much imagination to see how its holes routed on the Old--1 through 5, 15 through 18--could punch a couple scores higher, especially if they were restored and presented at a caliber in line with Muirfield (that's asking a lot, but for a World 100 much is expected!).


This site helped me understand the old routing configuration: https://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/oldest-golf-courses/1846-leven-links/



Your article is a great nudge for me to prioritize playing Leven next time I'm in Fife, so that I can put the Old course routing together in my head. Thanks!   

Hi Tim and Michael,


I believe the article incorrectly references the 6th as part of the "old" links. This hole would have been on the incorrect side of the railway line for it to be part of the original 18.


I sort of played the Interleven Links this June. We began our day with a lovely round at Lundin in the morning then Leven in the afternoon and got a fairly good taste for what this golf course could be. Upon doing so I was intrigued to do a bit of research and reading further the brief descriptions I could find available about the course prior to James Braid's work, the 6th through 14th would be added in 1909.


I agree the golf course as a sum of the original 18 could be considerably better than as is, though perhaps not World Top 100 worthy. A true play across the Links would help with that assess that.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Both courses are well worth a play, especially the holes closer to the water. Lundin might generally be maintained in better condition but I tend to think that Leven is more interesting architecturally.


Niall

Snap

[Alex_Hunter]

As it relates to my post above. I quite enjoyed both Leven and Lundin Links. Lundin seems like a club which has more money at this time and as such is in quite a bit better shape at the time of play. Its original 9 holes are the best on the entire interconnected property in my opinion. But other than the 6th and 7th I felt the remainder of its holes added by James Braid to be rather lacking.


Leven on the other hand, while in poorer conditions, was superb from start to finish. It left a better taste in my mouth than that of Lundin with more symmetry and cohesion between its holes. A good variety of features throughout.

[Tim Gallant]

Both courses are well worth a play, especially the holes closer to the water. Lundin might generally be maintained in better condition but I tend to think that Leven is more interesting architecturally.


Niall

Niall,


It was fascinating to play the two together from a conditioning standpoint. The greens were pretty similar and I didn't find a huge difference in firmness or speed. The only thing I would say is that Lundin's rough felt a bit nicer - ie, the wispy bits that allow you to find you ball easily, but could still grab your club.

[Tim Gallant]

Very nice, Tim! You prompted me to revisit photos of my round in 2022 at Lundin, maybe in part because your claim that the composite course would be "worthy of the World Top 100" struck me as a bit of hyperbole. I found the course to be a mixed bag of sorts, though there are flashes of undeniably lovely bones. The green site of Lundin's current 4th, for example, is super. I quite liked current 6th and 7th holes, though neither of those would've been in the Old. Current 17 has outstanding land. I have the current course around Doak 4 or 5, though it doesn't take much imagination to see how its holes routed on the Old--1 through 5, 15 through 18--could punch a couple scores higher, especially if they were restored and presented at a caliber in line with Muirfield (that's asking a lot, but for a World 100 much is expected!).


This site helped me understand the old routing configuration: https://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/oldest-golf-courses/1846-leven-links/



Your article is a great nudge for me to prioritize playing Leven next time I'm in Fife, so that I can put the Old course routing together in my head. Thanks!   

Hi Tim and Michael,


I believe the article incorrectly references the 6th as part of the "old" links. This hole would have been on the incorrect side of the railway line for it to be part of the original 18.


I sort of played the Interleven Links this June. We began our day with a lovely round at Lundin in the morning then Leven in the afternoon and got a fairly good taste for what this golf course could be. Upon doing so I was intrigued to do a bit of research and reading further the brief descriptions I could find available about the course prior to James Braid's work, the 6th through 14th would be added in 1909.


I agree the golf course as a sum of the original 18 could be considerably better than as is, though perhaps not World Top 100 worthy. A true play across the Links would help with that assess that.

Hi Alex!


I think the only reference to the 6th hole is in the photo description, but that's the 6th of the routing we played (which I believe would be 15 on the Lundin routing). For the McDonald Trophy, the three clubs take it in turn to 'Host'. So 2 out of every 3 years it starts at the Leven side, and 1 out of every 3 years it starts at the Lundin side. I believe Marty has played from both sides, and would be interested on his thoughts on which start is better!

[Marty Bonnar]

The photo is of the current 6th at Lundin, which wasn’t in the original 18. All that gorse on the right hand side is the line of the old railway. The current 15th (played as composite 6th from the Leven end) is over the other side of that. Hope that’s clear!
F.

[Alex_Hunter]

The photo is of the current 6th at Lundin, which wasn’t in the original 18. All that gorse on the right hand side is the line of the old railway. The current 15th (played as composite 6th from the Leven end) is over the other side of that. Hope that’s clear!
F.

This is my understanding as well. Perhaps Golf [dot] com used the wrong photo?
I believe this is the "old" 6th (current 15th). https://imgur.com/a/QWOv64k
The current 6th is quite remarkable - one of the most memorable holes at the Lundin Golf Club. Lovely blind tee shot!

[Stewart Abramson]

Lundin GC current  #6 from platform above tee





Lundin GC current #15 from tee



Lundin GC current #15 approch from left side of fairway

[Tim Gallant]

The photo is of the current 6th at Lundin, which wasn’t in the original 18. All that gorse on the right hand side is the line of the old railway. The current 15th (played as composite 6th from the Leven end) is over the other side of that. Hope that’s clear!
F.

This is my understanding as well. Perhaps Golf [dot] com used the wrong photo?
I believe this is the "old" 6th (current 15th). https://imgur.com/a/QWOv64k
The current 6th is quite remarkable - one of the most memorable holes at the Lundin Golf Club. Lovely blind tee shot!

Great spot and it's my mistake. We struggled to get photos for the story (as the day we played it was fairly overcast and my photos are not great), and I asked Sam if we could use some of his. I had wrongly identified the photo marked as the 6th as the 6th from the original (or 15th!). I'll see if we can find another photo to change to.

[Mark Pearce]

Both courses are well worth a play, especially the holes closer to the water. Lundin might generally be maintained in better condition but I tend to think that Leven is more interesting architecturally.


Niall

Snap

Also agreed.  Leven is less attractive and feels a bit bigger and tougher (particularly the original holes) but overall it's the better course, I think.  Mostly because its "new" holes are more interesting but the "old" holes are excellent.

[Sean_A]

I too think Leven just pips Lundin, but there really isn't anything between the two. Both are in my conversation for the bottom of top100 GB&I. They may just miss out, but it really is a flip of a coin with many other candidates.


Ciao

[Niall C]

I think what makes me think that Leven is more interesting architecturally is that the holes are a wee bit less conventional and a bit more of an adventure than those on Lundin but as others have said not much in it in terms of quality. One day I'd love to play the composite course.


Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think what makes me think that Leven is more interesting architecturally is that the holes are a wee bit less conventional and a bit more of an adventure than those on Lundin but as others have said not much in it in terms of quality. One day I'd love to play the composite course.


Niall

Yes. Again.

[Tim Gallant]

I think what makes me think that Leven is more interesting architecturally is that the holes are a wee bit less conventional and a bit more of an adventure than those on Lundin but as others have said not much in it in terms of quality. One day I'd love to play the composite course.


Niall

Hopefully you'll not have long to wait! I did hear back form the GM at Leven that the members enjoyed the article. If they set the course up for one day a year, maybe they can extend this to the Monday and allow visitors to play it? Let's see. I'd pay to play it again!