[Richard Choi]

I have only played a few, but Plainfield with its recent restoration by Gil Hanse is one of the best golf courses I have ever played anywhere by any designer. Just unbelievable greens and great mix of holes.

[Dean DiBerardino]

Two very good Ross courses that don't get much national attention:

Monroe Golf Club  (Rochester, NY)
County Club of Rochester

Gil Hanse has done recent restoration work at both and they are quite impressive.

Jimmy:

I was thinking of these two courses as well.  I had the opportunity to play both of them, I think, three years ago.  I believe it was after the work at CCR but before the work at Monroe.  In fact, I was looking the other day for updated images from Monroe since the work but couldn't find any.  I had the opportunity to play Oak Hill East as well and found that, as good of a championship test that Oak Hill East was, there was clearly more of Ross’ work left to be seen at CCR and Monroe.  Both were a joy to play and I would not hesitate to make the four hour drive to play them again.

[Lester George]

For me it's Seminole.  No question.

Lester

[Jon Heise]

I cant not talk about how much I love Pine Needles and Grosse Ile (Im a homer though...)!!!

[Dub_ONeill]

An Ohio Ross course that does not get the attention it deserves is Springfield Country Club.  It certainly is not in the very top tier of Ross courses, but it is a course that you immediately want to play again.  It is just terrific fun.

[David Whitmer]

My favorite Ross I have played is Scioto; a big golf course worthy of the multiple Championship's it has hosted, it is an ultimate test.

Kenny:

I was about to say Scioto as well, but then I thought...can it still be called a Ross course? I obviously did not see the course prior to Dick Wilson getting his hands on it, but I have read that many people (I believe Jack Nicklaus is in this camp) feel the course was changed so much it lost its "Ross characteristics."

Same goes for Inverness, as Steve Kline mentioned. If the credit for the designs of these two still go to Ross, I'll throw them in.

[Tom MacWood]

Pinehurst #2 has to come first, and then after that it would have to be Seminole. After that there is bunch of very good courses. Of his earliest courses I would think it would be Brae Burn and Bellaire (Fla), they were widely recognized, and then maybe The Broadmoor and Oakland Hills. CC of Havana was another important early design. There are so many of his later courses that are good its hard to choose, one that hasn't been mentioned yet is Oyster Harbors. I think Ross was very proud of that course; it was sort of a Pinehurst North in its prime (a few decades ago). Scioto and Inverness are still good, but in both cases the major changes were unfortunate IMO. I agree with all those singing the praises of Canton Brookside. I've heard CC of Buffalo is very good. And Mark Chalfant has said Longmeadow is outstanding and he's an excellent judge.

[Ash Towe]

I have only played 2 Ross courses on my visits to the US, Plainfield and Beverley CC.  Both were very enjoyable experiences but I thought Plainfield was magificent.  It was the type of club where I would love to be a member at and could enjoy playing there every weekend.

[Ed Oden]

Pinehurst #2 has to come first...

Tom, I've played Pinehurst #2 and Plainfield about an equal number of times (roughly 5 each).  Just one man's opinion, but I see Plainfield as the superior course.  In fact, I can't think of a single area where I'd say #2 clearly has the edge.  And that includes areas where #2 stakes its reputation, like the greens and green surrounds.  Plainfield is on far more interesting land.  Plainfield is quirkier, yet it is still the better test tee to green.  #2's only real defense is its greens and green surrounds, which can at times border on crossing the line in spots.  On the other hand, Plainfield doesn't need to trick things out to compete.  As a result, Plainfield'ts greens and surrounding areas actually have more variety and character and bring into play more options than #2.  Plus, I find Plainfield to be a more strategic course since the key decisions aren't limited to the green areas.  Add in that #2 has in my opinion gone backwards in recent years while Plainfield seems to improve with each successive season and I am not sure its much of a contest. 

Ed

[Tom MacWood]

Ed
Plainfield is an excellent course, but #2 has an advantage in width, green complexes and sandy soil. Those are some pretty important factors IMO. I haven't played Plainfield in a few years so I'm not sure if this still the case, but at the time it suffered from schizophrenia, it had a combination of Ross, RTJ and someone else who built those holes in the far corner. Do you know who is responsible for those holes in the far corner? There are two or three Ross courses in Ohio better than Plainfield IMO, at least as of a few years ago.

[Ed Oden]

Tom, you owe yourself a trip back to Plainfield.  For that matter, if you haven't been recently, you owe yourself a trip back to #2 to see how it is currently being staged.  I'll give you that #2 has the sandy soil.  But Plainfield's dramatic tree removal has allowed a new course to emerge.  Width is now a strength rather than a weakness.  In fact, since the fairways at #2 have not gone back out to pre-US Open widths, I am not sure that it is practically wider.  As for green complexes, I would respectfully disagree.  #2's crowned greens and tightly mown chipping areas are no doubt outstanding.  But quite frankly, they are not as varied as Plainfield's.  And, yes, I know about holes 13-15.  I have not played any Ross courses in Ohio, so I can not voice an opinion.  But if there are two or three Ross courses there better than Plainfield then there are at least an equal number there better than #2.

Ed

[Tom MacWood]

Ed
I agree the present set up of the greens at #2 leaves a lot to be desired, but I think we may have interpreted the question differently, I read the question from a historical perspective. What were his best designs? Some of his best designs are not at their peak today due to condition or redesign or being lost all together, as is the case with CC of Havana.

Along that line, at their respective peaks I judge Scioto, Inverness and Canton Brookside as all better than Plainfield, but not as good as Pinehurst #2. Do you think Plainfield benefits from being the lone top Ross design in the NYC Metro?

[Ed Oden]

Ed
I agree the present set up of the greens at #2 leaves a lot to be desired, but I think we may have interpreted the question differently, I read the question from a historical perspective. What were his best designs? Some of his best designs are not at their peak today due to condition or redesign or being lost all together, as is the case with CC of Havana.

Tom, you may be right.  But the question was "What would YOU consider Ross's best courses?"  That seems to be asking for our perspective, not the historical perspective of others.  My time machine is currently on the fritz.  So unless it gets up and running again, I am afraid my perspective is limited to multiple plays on both courses over the last dozen years or so. [emoticon conscientious objector]

Do you think Plainfield benefits from being the lone top Ross design in the NYC Metro?

Not in any meaningful way.  First of all, is Plainfield really the lone top Ross design in the area?  How about Mountain Ridge and Montclair?  I have played neither so I can't say.  But I have certainly heard others sing the praises of these two courses.  Second, in my opinion and I believe in the opinion of a number of other posters on this board, Plainfield is significantly underrated, both in terms of the rankings and in the public consciousness.  On the contrary, Plainfield is all too often lost in the shuffle among the many NYC metro area courses that routinely hold major championships (Baltusrol, Winged Foot, Bethpage and Shinnecock) and those with more general historical significance (like NGLA).  By the way, does Peninsula benefit from being the only Ross course on the west coast?

[Ron Csigo]

Tom,

I don't think Plainfield gets the notoriety and recognition it deserves compared to other courses in the state like Baltusrol and Somerset Hills.  With respect to Donald Ross courses, I find it more interesting then Pinehurst #2.  I would agree with Ed in comparing Pinehurst #2 versus Plainfield.

[Ian Andrew]

I love Essex County - the course is so much fun to play - and it features some of the best grassing lines in golf.
I can think of too many courses that I would choose to play before that one.

[Tom MacWood]

Ed
I have heard good things about Mountain Ridge, still I wonder if the limited number of top flight Ross courses in the NY Metro gives Plainfield bonus points. Are Mountain Ridge and Montclair Ross redesigns of previous courses?

[Buck Wolter]

I played Westbrook in Mansfield Ohio this summer and while I haven't been to enough Ross Courses to know if its one of his best I thought it was very good.

[Jay Flemma]

Oakland Hills is my fave, then White Bear, then Interlachen's back nine.

Sleeper picks...Thendara is cheap and a lot of fun and Manchester C.C. in N.H. was a nice place to play too.

[Richard Choi]

Tom, if you have not Plainfield since the restoration, then you MUST go and check it out yourself.

I saw some before and after pictures and I couldn't believe how drastic the changes are. It really is a fantastic course right now and better than any course I've played in New Jersey including Baltusrol (but I have not played PV).

[Tom MacWood]

Ed
Plainfield is an excellent course, but #2 has an advantage in width, green complexes and sandy soil. Those are some pretty important factors IMO. I haven't played Plainfield in a few years so I'm not sure if this still the case, but at the time it suffered from schizophrenia, it had a combination of Ross, RTJ and someone else who built those holes in the far corner. Do you know who is responsible for those holes in the far corner? There are two or three Ross courses in Ohio better than Plainfield IMO, at least as of a few years ago.

Richard
Plainfield is an excellent course (and I certain its even better after the restoration), but it is not, nor has it ever been, superior to #2, which was my point. There are also many Ross courses in the midwest and northeast, that are just as good, my other point. Being superior to Baltusrol is a major feather?

[jim_lewis]

Based on the design on the days I played them, here are my top 10:
After the first 3 or 4 there are listed in the order they occurred to me.  In several cases they have been altered significantly since Ross designed them. I only judge what I see, not what used to be.

Pinehurst #2
Wannamoisett
Seminole
Salem
Pine Needles
Holston Hills
Plainfield
East Lake
Inverness
Scioto
Essex
Charlotte
Franklin Hills
Teugega

Ok, so I can't count!

[Ed Oden]

Plainfield is an excellent course (and I certain its even better after the restoration), but it is not, nor has it ever been, superior to #2, which was my point.

Tom, I can't speak to the original designs or Ross' intent, but Plainfield is better than #2 RIGHT NOW.  Just curious, when was the last time you saw either course?  FYI...http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,35750.0/

[JNC Lyon]

I missed this thread a few days ago, I feel like I have to reply as a Ross fan.  Upstate New York is a particularly good place for Ross courses, and my top five favorites of his would go as such:

Oak Hill West - 17 original Ross greens, beautiful land for golf, an unbeatable walking layout.
Oak Hill East - the Fazios destroyed some Ross classics, but most of the routing and 14 great Ross greensites remain.  An unrelenting test.
Country Club of Buffalo - This course is a different style from Ross' other Upstate New York layouts, mostly because of the quarry that slices through the property.  The bunkering is shallower than his normal Northeastern style.  However, there are some great greens (5, 6, 10, 13, 14, 18), the Quarry holes are completely unique, and the par threes are as varied and diverse as you could ever want.
Teugega - my favorite set of Ross greens behind Oak Hill West.  The fan-shaped routing is tremendous as usual.  The course could lose some trees.
Monroe - great, swooping terrain that falls over unusually sandy soil.  The best holes are fantastic, such as the brilliant stretch from the 4th to the 9th.  However, the course possesses a few weak holes and three non-original greens that are an abomination.  Hanse's work here was very good.

Country Club of Rochester is also fantastic as mentioned above.  Gil Hanse did a very good job with the restoration a few years ago.  However, while Hanse did a great job restoring the features on the existing Ross holes, there are only 13 original Ross greens remaining in the layout.  Holes 5-7 are not Ross and very poor holes overall.  Number 2 is a very neat short par five, but the green was reconstructed by Arthur hills and is very artificial.  Number 18 was rebuilt by Hills, then bulldozed and moved back towards the clubhouse by Hanse in the spring of 2008.  This is not the original greensite, and the new green has not been well-received.  Nevertheless, CCR is an excellent layout with several great Ross holes.  The long fours at 8, 9, 12, and 13 are particularly good.

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

You asked, "I have heard good things about Mountain Ridge, still I wonder if the limited number of top flight Ross courses in the NY Metro gives Plainfield bonus points. Are Mountain Ridge and Montclair Ross redesigns of previous courses?"

Mountain Ridge had an original 9-hole course and hired Tilly to design a second 9 which opened in 1916. The club would move to a new location several years later and hired Ross to design the new course.

This is taken from the Montclair Golf Club website:

"Montclair” is generally considered to be the 13th oldest golf club in America.  Its founding members initially staked out a course in the Town of Montclair on land now occupied by the “Erwin Park” residential neighborhood and by Edgemont Park.  In 1899, the first 18 hole course, designed by Tom Bendelow, was established at roughly the present location of the first and second nines.  A new clubhouse was built on a site near the end of today’s driving range.
In 1920, the legendary Scottish architect Donald Ross was commissioned to design the 27 holes of the first, second and third nines.  Two years later, the original clubhouse was destroyed by fire.  A new, larger building was constructed facing Prospect Avenue which remains as the core building of the current Colonial style clubhouse.  By October 1928, the club had acquired enough land to add a fourth nine, which was designed by Charles Banks.
The original designs have been improved over the years by the work of two of Montclair’s most recognized members of the golf community.  Robert Trent Jones joined Montclair in the late 30’s and remained a member until his death.  His son Rees Jones, “The U.S. Open Doctor,” learned the game on the Donald Ross and Charles Banks designs.

[Tom MacWood]

I met an assistant pro from Mountain Ridge who thought Herbert Strong was involved. He must have been confused.

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