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Brad Swanson

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Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« on: September 21, 2009, 12:29:48 PM »
I just returned from my final trip up to Marquette GC this season and decided to play Timberstone GC on the way back home.  I was pleasantly surprised at how much I enjoyed the course.  I think its pluses outweigh its minuses and I recommend making a stop there while touring the U.P.  It adds a little more meat to the bone of U.P. golf such that someone that wouldn't consider traveling all the way to Marquette just to play Greywalls might be more inclined to make the trip and play 2 quality courses.  It did play a little softer than I would prefer, but the variety of the holes, some interesting greens, and a really nice setting made for a fun round of golf.  Those that take pleasure from their surroundings while playing will really enjoy the course, particularly during the fall colors.  For the anglers on the discussion group, the lakes on the course were the clearest bodies of water I have ever seen and they contained some fair sized trout.  I'm told that's typical for the area, so bring your fly rods with you!    
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 01:41:51 PM by Brad Swanson »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2009, 01:29:59 PM »
Brad, Timberstone is a Jerry Mathews Course (same who did Angels Crossing) and I've meant to play it for years, but haven't gotten a round tuit.  Many folks from Green Bay go to play Timberstone once a year.  It is particularly attractive with that deal offered by the casino in Escanaba where you can stay 2 nights, and play three courses (Timberstone, Greywalls and the casino course, Sweet Grass, desinged by infrequent GCA contributor, Paul Albanese) for $200, lodging and golf included.  That is a steal.  :o 8)

It looks like you had perfect weather, I wish I could have been there.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2009, 01:41:01 PM »
The weather was perfect for a late summer weekend of U.P. golf.  Greywalls was in the best F&F shape I've ever seen as rain has yet to fall in September up there. 

Brian_Sleeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2009, 06:58:32 PM »
Wish I'd known you were up there, Brad, as I just returned from a weekend trip to Marquette myself.  My wife and I took another couple up and played both courses - I thought they were both in great shape.

And what a weekend.

Glad you got out to enjoy it!

Jon Heise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2009, 07:12:19 PM »
I love Timberstone!  Some good variety of holes, great conditions (ok, maybe a bit soft), and awesome views.  The best elevated "Northern Michigan" par 3 I know of in #17.  Ive been trying hard to get up there and make te loop of the UP, but havent been able to.  Likely I'll get to in early Oct, so I'll do a full photo tour then!
I still like Greywalls better.

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2009, 07:32:43 PM »
Brad, Timberstone is a Jerry Mathews Course (same who did Angels Crossing) and I've meant to play it for years, but haven't gotten a round tuit.  Many folks from Green Bay go to play Timberstone once a year.  It is particularly attractive with that deal offered by the casino in Escanaba where you can stay 2 nights, and play three courses (Timberstone, Greywalls and the casino course, Sweet Grass, desinged by infrequent GCA contributor, Paul Albanese) for $200, lodging and golf included.  That is a steal.  :o 8)

It looks like you had perfect weather, I wish I could have been there.  

Timberstone was designed by Jerry Mathews who is the son of W. Bruce Mathews.  The designed of Angels Crossing is W. Bruce Mathews the III whose grandfather is W. Bruce Mathews and uncle is Jerry Mathews.  There is a difference between the two especially their styles when it comes to green sites, artificially mounding, etc.  Another W. Bruce Mathews III course that I have wanted to play is Hidden River, I believe it is the course Jim Thompson played and decided on Mathews III or inspired him to get Mathews the III to design Angles Crossing.  Some of Jerry Mathews other courses in Michigan that get some acclaim are Manistee National, Buck's Run and he has a course up in Atlanta, MI Elk Ridge.

Chris

Joel Zuckerman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2009, 07:44:06 PM »
Brad, Timberstone is a Jerry Mathews Course (same who did Angels Crossing) and I've meant to play it for years, but haven't gotten a round tuit.  Many folks from Green Bay go to play Timberstone once a year.  It is particularly attractive with that deal offered by the casino in Escanaba where you can stay 2 nights, and play three courses (Timberstone, Greywalls and the casino course, Sweet Grass, desinged by infrequent GCA contributor, Paul Albanese) for $200, lodging and golf included.  That is a steal.  :o 8)

It looks like you had perfect weather, I wish I could have been there. 

I enjoyed this exact itinerary just over a year ago.  The trip opened with a bang---Monday Night Football in Lambeau--Packers/Vikings, and then up the road we went to the UP.  I enjoyed Timberstone greatly--my favorite of the 3, and was happy to make it the 600th course on my lifetime list.  (Hit 650 a few weeks back, so 2009 has been productive also!)

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2009, 01:09:40 AM »
Brad, Timberstone is a Jerry Mathews Course (same who did Angels Crossing) and I've meant to play it for years, but haven't gotten a round tuit.  Many folks from Green Bay go to play Timberstone once a year.  It is particularly attractive with that deal offered by the casino in Escanaba where you can stay 2 nights, and play three courses (Timberstone, Greywalls and the casino course, Sweet Grass, desinged by infrequent GCA contributor, Paul Albanese) for $200, lodging and golf included.  That is a steal.  :o 8)

It looks like you had perfect weather, I wish I could have been there.  

Timberstone was designed by Jerry Mathews who is the son of W. Bruce Mathews.  The designed of Angels Crossing is W. Bruce Mathews the III whose grandfather is W. Bruce Mathews and uncle is Jerry Mathews.  There is a difference between the two especially their styles when it comes to green sites, artificially mounding, etc.  Another W. Bruce Mathews III course that I have wanted to play is Hidden River, I believe it is the course Jim Thompson played and decided on Mathews III or inspired him to get Mathews the III to design Angles Crossing.  Some of Jerry Mathews other courses in Michigan that get some acclaim are Manistee National, Buck's Run and he has a course up in Atlanta, MI Elk Ridge.

Chris


I was of the understanding that Mathews had little or nothing to do with the designing of Angels Crossing, that he was hired to build/consult on the construction. Basically hired to handle the technical side of the construction.
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2009, 07:05:10 AM »


I was of the understanding that Mathews had little or nothing to do with the designing of Angels Crossing, that he was hired to build/consult on the construction. Basically hired to handle the technical side of the construction.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7722.msg149830/

This is what Jim Thompson wrote about hidden river on the thread above:

"The first time I played Hidden River I was immersed in the natural / oldness of the contouring and features.  They looked so natural that I thought they had been there forever.  It wasn’t until my third round, two years later – when I duck hooked my tee shot off five and drove on top of one of the mounds on the left side – that I saw what Bruce had to start with and how well he made it work.  This in no small measure led to him getting our job by the way."

This is what Jim Thompson had to say about W. Bruce Mathews III design involvement with Angels Crossing:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23879.0/

"As for design and Bruce's role or my role or however you want to put it.  I think the best way to put it is that Bruce was finally given a setting and an ownership group that was willing to let him push the envelope and express some of his bigger ideas in the design of Angels Crossing, not so much pushing the design process as liberating an architect.  Granted we may have tweaked a few things here and there, but in the end they are more like the sprinkles of the golf course sundae then the ice cream itself.  Bruce makes great ice cream!!!!  Maybe corny but that's how I think of it.  We did collaborate on some of the flavors and all but a great deal of the credit does need to be given to Bruce for dealing with more then a couple of very opinionated individuals.  Bruce's ability to work within that environment and maximze the end result may very well have been his greatest accomplishment during the project."

I am sure they were both heavily involved in the project, I believe Mathews III was more than just a puppet though.

Chris


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2009, 02:59:14 PM »
Sorry for the Mathews mix up.  I even had a chance to meet Bruce once at AC.  I was under the mis-impression he did Timberstone.  

Where the heck is Big Jim Thompson anyway?  I miss his keen input and on-the-ground practical knowledge of GCM he often interjected in our discussions.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2009, 03:05:39 PM »
Here's Jim with Mr. Matthews discussing Angel's Crossing...  http://michigangolfer.tv/2004shows/show9/

Jon Heise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2009, 07:01:55 PM »
I dont think Ive seen any posted on GCA, so I'll add a couple pix... all from the back 9.  Very pretty GC.



16


17
I still like Greywalls better.

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2009, 09:58:49 PM »
John,
   While #17 is very scenic, I'll remember it as the spoiler to my bid to break 70 for the 1st time this year.  Its a tough hole to confidently choose a club on, particularly the 1st go around.

Doug Ralston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2009, 11:39:14 PM »
I loved all three courses ..... all very different. Waiting for someone else to play Sweetgrass and give some thoughts.

I still regard the UP trip to be once of the best, and not just for the golf. Animal life everywhere, and unique landforms.

Doug
Where is everybody? Where is Tommy N? Where is John K? Where is Jay F? What has happened here? Has my absence caused this chaos? I'm sorry. All my rowdy friends have settled down ......... somewhere else!

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2009, 03:31:32 PM »
Don't worry RJ, I still lurk in the shadows!  Golf has left a pretty bad taste in my mouth though since Angels and my experience at the Highlands, but those are mostly my issues.  I continue to try and get out of the business although my last post fell victim to the GM refi with the feds.  Had to tell my owner to shut his business down, which in turn has left me out of steady work since last December.  I would love to help some honorable people in golf again some day.  Some one who would appreciate my skills, approach and work ethic...

Anyways, onto Angels and the Matthews clan:  W. Bruce Matthews I was a site director for Stiles and VanKleek at Taconic who later moved to Michigan and began designing courses on his own.  He had two sons go into the golf business Wally B. Matthews II who became a golf course super and Jerry who some say is a golf course architect.  W. Bruce Matthews III is the son of Wally B. Matthews II who started out as a Superintendent and later moved on to architecture.  The confusion often comes when people see that Bruce III worked for Jerry when he was younger.  I would also argue that many of Jerry's "better courses" were influenced by Bruce III while Bruce wasw working for and later with him.  For the record, I wouldn't hire Jerry to design a parking lot much less a golf course.  I'm not a fan of Jerry's work and the courses that bear his name that I do thin are OK were directly influenced by Bruce III.

The quotes regarding Angels and Bruce III are accurate.  Bruce was not a token or a puppet and to claim such would be very disrespectful of his talents and influence.  Angels is different from much of Bruce's prior courses in that we allowed him to "work big"  and stretch his scale as well as the severity of some the features.  I think everyone learned alot on the project.  W. Bruce Matthews III is the architect of Angels Crossing and he had to endure an extremely high level of input from his client, but I think all would agree that some great things came out of that experience.  I consider Bruce to be a great friend and a very good man through all of the Angels soap opera, a series of events that he and I had little to do with exceot that his is listed as the architect and I am known as the first GM etc...  In hind sight I feel we were both taken advantage of as were a number of other fine people who tried to help their community, but that story isn't for this type of forum.

As for me, I am currently doing contract work for a venture capital /  merchant bank out of Chicago helping them with their distressed practice department.  I do valuations, due diligence, turn around planning and the like.  All that said, I am still a golf guy at heart and would entertain any opportunities to help good people going forward in design , construction, operations etc... and have the green light from the Mrs. to go where ever that leads. Anybody need any help?? =)

All my best!

JT
Jim Thompson

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Timberstone GC, Iron Mountain MI
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2009, 04:06:57 PM »
Brad, Timberstone is a Jerry Mathews Course (same who did Angels Crossing) and I've meant to play it for years, but haven't gotten a round tuit.  Many folks from Green Bay go to play Timberstone once a year.  It is particularly attractive with that deal offered by the casino in Escanaba where you can stay 2 nights, and play three courses (Timberstone, Greywalls and the casino course, Sweet Grass, desinged by infrequent GCA contributor, Paul Albanese) for $200, lodging and golf included.  That is a steal.  :o 8)

It looks like you had perfect weather, I wish I could have been there. 

I enjoyed this exact itinerary just over a year ago.  The trip opened with a bang---Monday Night Football in Lambeau--Packers/Vikings, and then up the road we went to the UP.  I enjoyed Timberstone greatly--my favorite of the 3, and was happy to make it the 600th course on my lifetime list.  (Hit 650 a few weeks back, so 2009 has been productive also!)

Joel, WOW! I am only at 255! An UP trip is on my schedule as well...
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)