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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #75 on: September 30, 2009, 07:04:59 AM »
Quote from: JC Jones on February 04, 2009, 08:20:04 PM
I agree.  You "grovel," you pay whatever necessary.  You have to expect that if the course is worth "groveling" for.

Also, it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity that you will never forget.  Not sure you can put a price on that.

The interesting thing about this post is that I did not make it.  I'm now looking over my shoulder for the Bud Ice penguins. 

Ran, if you see this, any thoughts?
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2009, 09:41:17 AM »
Anthony,

Re-Fisher's: I don't know what the cost was.  The companies in question must have paid the club a tidy sum, but only senior employees and their best clients were invited...
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Martin Toal

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2009, 10:00:02 AM »
Quote from: JC Jones on September 30, 2009, 07:04:59 AM
Quote from: JC Jones on February 04, 2009, 08:20:04 PM
I agree.  You "grovel," you pay whatever necessary.  You have to expect that if the course is worth "groveling" for.

Also, it may be a once in a lifetime opportunity that you will never forget.  Not sure you can put a price on that.

The interesting thing about this post is that I did not make it.  I'm now looking over my shoulder for the Bud Ice penguins.  

Ran, if you see this, any thoughts?

There was probably some unintentional editing of previously quoted material and the end quote boxes.
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2009, 04:41:25 PM »
No course is worth groveling.  Suck it up  - If you get on, fine, but don't whine (or beg)  ;)
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Steve Sayre

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2009, 05:25:54 PM »
Is New Zealand Golf Club a tough ticket? Is it worth a grovel?
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #80 on: September 30, 2009, 05:31:55 PM »
i still want some of the grovellers to pls define what "Grovelling" means in this situation...

asking politely is not grovelling...so what is?  constant harassment of someone who has access?  saying pretty please while on your knees , what??
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2009, 05:34:16 PM »
Quote from: Steve Sayre on September 30, 2009, 05:25:54 PM
Is New Zealand Golf Club a tough ticket? Is it worth a grovel?

Steve

I didn't think NZ was particularly hard to play, but I am not sure.

You be the judge of grovelling potential.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36467.msg744713/#msg744713

Ciao
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 05:35:49 PM by Sean Arble »
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New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2009, 08:52:18 PM »
Quote from: Steve Sayre on September 30, 2009, 05:25:54 PM
Is New Zealand Golf Club a tough ticket? Is it worth a grovel?

NZ is open to visitor play. You may call the club Secretary, Roger Marrett,  44 01932 345049. Mr Marrett and the club were extremely welcoming when I played NZ in 2007. He gave me a personal tour and history of the club. Unlike most of the other clubs near London, NZ does not have a website thus perhaps giving the impression that visitor play is not welcome. I asked Mr Marrett about that. His response was that they have sufficient play from corporate and society days and visitors without any publicity. I don't know about being "grovel-worthy", but NZ is definitely worth playing.
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Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2009, 08:45:17 AM »
I think the majority of folks on this thread take Tom's grovel comment too literally.  In my experience, it is neither good decorum or likely very successful to grovel to get on exclusive courses.  Through the course of one's business, friends, understanding and appreciation of the game, one tends to get invited to some of these places eventually.  I think Tom meant that these courses are worth going out of your way to play, not try to get on at any cost.  I would think that overtly asking or pleading or cajoling even a reasonable aquaintance to get on a very exclusive course would likely be counterproductive.  Even if a very close friend asked me to take him out I'd find it offputting.  It is solely the members place to do the asking....
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2009, 08:53:56 AM »
Jud

I took grovelling to mean to cash in on favours or the goodwill of folks whereby one gets the chance to play because he is an acquaintance of a friend of an acquaintance sort of deal.  I seriously doubt Tom D was talking about a hand n' knees job - read that as you will.

Ciao 
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New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Gareth Williams

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2009, 08:54:44 AM »
Quote from: Stewart Abramson on September 30, 2009, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: Steve Sayre on September 30, 2009, 05:25:54 PM
Is New Zealand Golf Club a tough ticket? Is it worth a grovel?

NZ is open to visitor play. You may call the club Secretary, Roger Marrett,  44 01932 345049. Mr Marrett and the club were extremely welcoming when I played NZ in 2007. He gave me a personal tour and history of the club. Unlike most of the other clubs near London, NZ does not have a website thus perhaps giving the impression that visitor play is not welcome. I asked Mr Marrett about that. His response was that they have sufficient play from corporate and society days and visitors without any publicity. I don't know about being "grovel-worthy", but NZ is definitely worth playing.




NZ is very much worth playing but as posted earlier it is not that tough to get on the course. A call/letter before usually gets a positive response as-like Swinley-it is an under played gem.
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Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2009, 08:57:45 AM »
It must be tough for Tom Doak, having the exact literal meaning of every word he wrote in a book a couple of decades ago poored and argued over as if in court, construing the exact meaning of a contract.  Can't we apply a rather more sensible and purposive constructyion to his words?

He still got NE England wrong, though.....
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #87 on: October 01, 2009, 08:58:33 AM »
The aftwernoon I had at NZ playing with Mark Chaplin and having Richard Pennell and his dog walking the first loop with is was among the handful of most enjoyable games of golf I have played in the UK.

There may be better courses nearby, but the experience is a hard one to beat.
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Gareth Williams

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #88 on: October 01, 2009, 09:01:02 AM »
Quote from: Scott Warren on October 01, 2009, 08:58:33 AM
The aftwernoon I had at NZ playing with Mark Chaplin and having Richard Pennell and his dog walking the first loop with is was among the handful of most enjoyable games of golf I have played in the UK.

There may be better courses nearby, but the experience is a hard one to beat.



I can well believe that Scott.

It's a lovely place and very peaceful - has it's own unique charms.
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Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #89 on: October 01, 2009, 09:26:02 AM »
Quote from: Mark Pearce on October 01, 2009, 08:57:45 AM
It must be tough for Tom Doak, having the exact literal meaning of every word he wrote in a book a couple of decades ago poored and argued over as if in court, construing the exact meaning of a contract.  Can't we apply a rather more sensible and purposive constructyion to his words?

He still got NE England wrong, though.....

That really bugs you that Mark doesn't it? 

A sign that you're now an adopted Geordie?
Logged
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #90 on: October 01, 2009, 09:31:24 AM »
Quote from: Andrew Mitchell on October 01, 2009, 09:26:02 AM
Quote from: Mark Pearce on October 01, 2009, 08:57:45 AM
It must be tough for Tom Doak, having the exact literal meaning of every word he wrote in a book a couple of decades ago poored and argued over as if in court, construing the exact meaning of a contract.  Can't we apply a rather more sensible and purposive constructyion to his words?

He still got NE England wrong, though.....

That really bugs you that Mark doesn't it? 

A sign that you're now an adopted Geordie?
Oh yes, it still does.  I was reminded how much when I checked the scores he gave the BUDA venues and noticed that Hexham (pleasant parkland) got a 4, more than any of Goswick, the Northumberland or Seaton Carew (all 3s).  Barmy.

And yes, I may not have the accent but I do think the North East is home now.
Logged
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #91 on: October 01, 2009, 10:24:05 AM »
Mark
A Doak 3 is an average golf course.  From my one play of Goswick it's certainly above average.  Perhaps when I'm in the area in a few weeks we should play The Northumberland to confirm your thinking that he got that one wrong as well?

Turning your words slightly it's tough on Tom that he gives a course a rating and that mark is subject to detailed scrutiny (as they have been on other threads) 20 years later.
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2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #92 on: October 01, 2009, 10:30:35 AM »
Andrew,

Don't expect me to be consistent, you know what I do for a living.  As it happens I have other reasons for wanting to play Goswick when you're up in a few weeks.  Perhaps we can play the Northumberland another time?

Mark
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #93 on: October 01, 2009, 10:52:52 AM »
Lawyers eh!

Goswick is fine by me.  I'm sure it will confirm my opinion that it's at least a 4 if not a 5.  I'll IM or email you next week re the arrangements.
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2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #94 on: October 01, 2009, 11:08:55 AM »
Grovel:
1. To behave in a servile or demeaning manner; cringe.
2. To lie or creep in a prostrate position, as in subservience or humility.
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PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #95 on: October 01, 2009, 11:15:51 AM »
Quote from: Dan Herrmann on October 01, 2009, 11:08:55 AM
Grovel:
1. To behave in a servile or demeaning manner; cringe.
2. To lie or creep in a prostrate position, as in subservience or humility.


well i certainly dont hope any of the grovellers have done #2 Dan!
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #96 on: October 01, 2009, 04:31:43 PM »
Quote from: Mark Pearce on October 01, 2009, 08:57:45 AM
It must be tough for Tom Doak, having the exact literal meaning of every word he wrote in a book a couple of decades ago poored and argued over as if in court, construing the exact meaning of a contract.  Can't we apply a rather more sensible and purposive constructyion to his words?

He still got NE England wrong, though.....

No harder than it would be for any other author.  Isn't that effectively what we do with every book worth of discussion? 
Logged
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Kirk Gill

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Tom Doak's "Course Worth Groveling to Play"
« Reply #97 on: October 01, 2009, 06:12:53 PM »
With a wife and four young ones, ANY course is worth groveling for.

And that's just to get out of the house.


 ;)
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"After all, we're not communists."
                             -Don Barzini
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