Identify the architects (British version)

« **Reply #25 on:** September 25, 2009, 07:36:22 PM »

Niall
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. This not an easy quiz, what makes it difficult is the similarity in styles. I give you credit for giving it a shot, unlike some who have not even tried.

Tony came through with two. 6 is Mackenzie at Troon Portland and 7 is Fowler's Walton Heath. Five down and eight to go (Abercromby, Alison, Braid, Colt, Croome, Gannon, Hawtree & Taylor and Simpson).

« **Reply #26 on:** September 26, 2009, 02:45:20 AM »

I should quit while I'm ahead. Three more stabs.

2 The first at the Addington? Abercromby/Colt

5 The first short hole at New Zealand, the 4th? Simpsons only 100% original hole there.

11 Royal Birkdale Hawtree/Taylor orThe Valley course at Portrush?

« **Reply #27 on:** September 26, 2009, 08:17:34 AM »

Tony
You're on a roll. 5 is Tom Simpson at New Zealand; 11 is FG Hawtree & JH Taylor at Birkdale; and I'll give you 13 from your first guess (you mistakenly wrote you could see the clubhouse through the trees with #8 ), HS Colt at Moor Park, High course.

There are only five left - Abercromby, Alison, Braid, Croome, and Gannon.

« **Reply #28 on:** September 26, 2009, 08:21:21 AM »

1
2
3 Park
4
5 Simpson
6 Mackenzie
7 Fowler
8 Campbell, Hutchison & Hotchkin
9
10 Smith
11 Hawtree & Taylor
12
13 Colt

« **Reply #29 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:52:04 AM »

#1 could be Gleneagles-Kings (Braid), with the view over the 8th green towards the 10th fairway.

« **Reply #30 on:** September 26, 2009, 10:37:12 AM »

This was fun though I have little clue as who did what. I'm surprised at the similarity in bunker style.

I'll venture a guess that #12 represents the big and bold bunker style of Alison.

« **Reply #31 on:** September 26, 2009, 12:01:34 PM »

Rich
You're right, 1 is Braid, but its Royal Norwich, not Gleneagles.

« **Reply #32 on:** September 27, 2009, 10:14:51 AM »

I filled in the remaining four for the complete list:

1 Braid, Royal Norwich
2 Arthur Croome, Liphook
3 Park, Sunningdale-Old
4 CH Alison, Kirtland
5 Simpson, New Zealand
6 Mackenzie, Troon Portland
7 Fowler, Walton Heath
8 Campbell, Hutchison & Hotchkin, West Sussex
9 JF Abercromby, East Brighton
10 Smith, Stockholm
11 Hawtree & Taylor, Royal Birkdale
12 Peter Gannon, San Remo
13 Colt, Moor Park

« **Reply #33 on:** September 27, 2009, 11:20:11 AM »

Thanks Tom, shame Paul T doesn't hang out here so much.

East brighton think it's Braid http://www.eastbrightongolfclub.co.uk/history.php can you tell us more? I will get there one day.

also Gannon doesn't have an entry in The Architects of Golf. What else did he do?

« **Reply #34 on:** September 27, 2009, 06:19:58 PM »

Christoph Meister has compiled a lot of info about Peter Gannon:

http://www.golfika.de/43075/44454.html

I played Ugolino and Ascona, the guy could design.

Ulrich

« **Reply #35 on:** September 27, 2009, 06:25:41 PM »

Tony
Abercromby redesigned East Brighton in 1922.

Gannon designed quite a few courses on the Continent including Villa d'Este, Milano, Lido, and Baden-Baden.

At the start of this thread I said the architects were English, Scottish or Irish. I was wrong on two of them - Abercromby came from S. Africa and Gannon from Argentina.

« **Reply #36 on:** September 27, 2009, 10:18:50 PM »

Kirtland's 10th hole then and now. The par-3 11th can be seen in the background.

« **Reply #37 on:** September 28, 2009, 05:15:16 AM »

I would love to know what the absolute earliest date is of any of the photographs on the first or second posts of this thread!

« **Reply #38 on:** September 28, 2009, 05:54:59 AM »

The first picture comes from British Rail publication from 1937 and the second from Sutton's book from 1933.

« **Reply #39 on:** September 28, 2009, 06:10:03 AM »

Tom MacWood:

Are you unaware of the dates on the remainder of those photographs or are you saying you believe most or all of those photographs including the earliest one might be from the 1930s? I'm particularly interested because of the fact they mostly all show what can be described as significantly "flashed sand" bunkering. I am interested in the origination and the evolution of the MAN-MADE "flashed sand" bunker, where it first appeared or was first prevalently used and by whom.

« **Reply #40 on:** September 28, 2009, 06:17:05 AM »

TEP
I'm sorry, I misunderstood your question. All the photos come from the 20s, 30s and 40s, with the exception of Sunningdale. I don't know the precise date of that picture, but I'd guess 1900s or 1910s.

« **Reply #41 on:** September 28, 2009, 07:06:16 AM »

"TEP
I'm sorry, I misunderstood your question. All the photos come from the 20s, 30s and 40s, with the exception of Sunningdale. I don't know the precise date of that picture, but I'd guess 1900s or 1910s."

Tom MacWood:

That seems like a reasonable guess but any earlier than say 1900 or the early to mid years of the first decade of the 20th century wouldn't to me. I'm not just talking about the earliest photographs; I'm talking about the first examples of truly MAN-MADE significantly "flashed sand" bunkers, particularly on inland courses and even more specifcally on inland courses that are not naturally sand based such as Merion East, a loam/clay previously farm site.

« **Reply #42 on:** October 05, 2009, 11:12:09 AM »

Quote from: Tom MacWood on September 27, 2009, 10:14:51 AM

I filled in the remaining four for the complete list:

1 Braid, Royal Norwich
2 Arthur Croome, Liphook
3 Park, Sunningdale-Old
4 CH Alison, Kirtland
5 Simpson, New Zealand
6 Mackenzie, Troon Portland
7 Fowler, Walton Heath
8 Campbell, Hutchison & Hotchkin, West Sussex
9 JF Abercromby, East Brighton
10 Smith, Stockholm
11 Hawtree & Taylor, Royal Birkdale
12 Peter Gannon, San Remo
13 Colt, Moor Park

Hello Tom,

first I was really disappointed that I did not recognize No.12 as a Peter Gannon designed course....but having a closer look at the picture
I must say that the land looks far too flat for San Remo and also the course layout was/is quite different. Also the houses on top of the course don't look very much Italian - Could you please check again - Or maybe I am looking at the wrong picture?

Kind regards

Christoph

« **Reply #43 on:** October 05, 2009, 07:00:03 PM »

Christoph
The photo came from an advertisement I found in a French magazine.

« **Reply #44 on:** October 06, 2009, 05:29:10 AM »

Quote from: Tom MacWood on October 05, 2009, 07:00:03 PM

Christoph
The photo came from an advertisement I found in a French magazine.

Tom,

very interesting - you are right from the advert it looks as if this is a photo of San Remo...but still from the historic Photos I have seen the course looks completely different...could you send me a higher resolution Scan of the photo by e-mail so that I can try to better identify the holes and check with the documents I have?

From the three photos below (all around 1935) you'll most probably see what I mean.....

« **Reply #45 on:** October 06, 2009, 06:38:36 AM »

Christoph
All three of your photos look to be near the clubhouse, which is on higher ground. Its difficult to say if the photo in the advert is an aerial or taken from the top of one of the nearby hills, whatever the case those types of elevated photos tend to flatten things out.

« **Reply #46 on:** October 06, 2009, 07:43:14 AM »

Quote from: Tom MacWood on October 06, 2009, 06:38:36 AM

Christoph
All three of your photos look to be near the clubhouse, which is on higher ground. Its difficult to say if the photo in the advert is an aerial or taken from the top of one of the nearby hills, whatever the case those types of elevated photos tend to flatten things out.

Tom,

yes you might be right, it's just that on your photos there are no trees at all between some of the fairways - if you look at the last photo from 1935 it shows trees on the fairway only three years after the course was opened in 1932...also the bunkers on your pictures do not look like Peter Gannon bunkers...his bunkers were rather simple and he didn't use so many...but maybe I am wrong...

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