Prestwick, how much has it changed?

[David Stamm]

When Young Tom Morris won the Open in 1870 at Prestwick to gain permanent possesion of the belt, he began defense of his title on the then 570+yd par 5 1st hole, where he incidentally made a 3! Is the hole still there and the sequencing has changed? If not, how many original holes are still at Prestwick?

[Melvyn Morrow]

David

Check your e-mail. Map being sent showing current layout out with the 1870 course. The 1870 1st Tee is today marked but in the Car Park of the club.

Enjoy

Melvyn

[Chris Ord]

when i played there a few years ago, my caddy showed me how the opening hole used to play.  from what i saw, young tom made a heck of 3!

[Chris Moore]

I can't precisely remember the number of the hole, but somewhere around no. 14 there was a hole that played something like 4-iron/sand wedge to a green that sloped severely from front to back, and I mean ski-jump severe.  I was puzzled at the design until I learned that the approach used to come from the opposite direction. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Link to old thread on this topic.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31220.msg608238/

[Adrian_Stiff]

As the plan shows; only 4 holes are as per the original 12. The current 2nd, 3rd, 13th, 15th, 16th and 17th greens are used. Only the 15th green is bastardized as it now plays from entirely the opposite direction, the current 2nd was used from two directions and the 13th (sea headrig) was played perhaps from a very slightly different angle.

There have been some changes since it went from 12  to 18 also. The current 11th is a newie and after 6 there were slightly different holes around to 8.

Ooo and the airport is not so pretty.

All things considered it is rather good.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Adrian

Seven Greens are still in use. Charlie Hunter, yet another relative on my great grandfather’s (James Hunter) side. Did more than a fair job regards the course.

Peter

Thanks for the link, before my time at GCa.com. Already have a copy of the map, nevertheless, I do like Prestwick & St Nicholas clubs & courses as well.

Melvyn

[Adrian_Stiff]

Melvyn- Where is the 7th? Are you counting using the current 2nd twice?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Adrian

First, I am referring to the clubs information and yes on checking the plan, I agree the Tunnel Hole Green covers OTM’s 3rd & 6th Greens.

Following the course plan (OTM’s in white)
1st Green is The Back of the Cardinal Hole, Present 16th Green
2nd Green is The Alps Hole, Present 17th  Green
3rd Green is The Tunnel Hole, Present 2nd Green
4th Green is The Wall Hole, Present 3rd Green
5th Green is The Sea Hedrig Hole, Present 13th
6th Green is The Tunnel Hole, Present 2nd Green
10th Green is The Lunch House Hole, Present 15th Green

The Prestwick Club is a great club, it has its traditions and lets not forget that it was a club predominately for Gentlemen. We here still value our traditions as part of the story of our past lives. I have no problem how a club runs its business, just be thankful that they are happy (for whatever reason) to open their doors to Visitors.  Old Tom was not regarded as a gentleman in the Victorian Age nor was Charlie Hunter, etc hence why they opened their own club, the St Nicholas Club, yet played on OTM course at Prestwick until they moved to their own ground after Old Tom returned to St Andrews. The St Nicholas course was designed by Charlie and should you have time it should be played to get a balance with Prestwick.

Adrian, we agree, nearly a first. Have you been to Prestwick & St Nicholas, IMHO it is certainly worth the bother, if you love golf and its rich history, well that’s MHO for what its worth.

Melvyn

[Adrian_Stiff]

Melvyn - No I did not get to P St Nicholas when I was up that way, I would have liked to but just never had time I looked at Prestwick, Troon, Dundonald, Barrasie and the two courses at Turnberry.

[Brian_Ewen]

It was obviously not to everyones taste ?

[Brian_Ewen]

Was there a particular reason for No.9 being shown in the cartoon ?

[RSLivingston_III]

In the early days, was the clubhouse located near the links hotel?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ralph

Check your e-mail as I have sent you some more information on Prestwick.

The clubhouse in the time of Old Tom was over and to the East of the railway tracks some couple of hundred yards away from the course, not as you might expect towards the sea (Links Hotel area). The Club Members purchased two cottages opposite the Red Lion Inn - one for Tom, and the other as a clubhouse - both buildings are still standing today albeit visibly reconstructed and was some distance from the course.  In 1866 after Old Tom went back to St Andrews the property was sold and the money used to build the current clubhouse.

The following map from 1922 is more or less the course when Prestwick last hosted The Open.



Melvyn

[Melvyn Morrow]

Ops, forgot to add the aerial photo showing the view down the 14th Hole to the Clubhouse and Car Park


Check out location/positions on the photo with the Then & Now Course Map (below)


You can also see the 18th Hole returning to the clubhouse, that's the rectangle Green in front of said clubhouse. Also visible is the First Tee, which is on the other side of the 18th Green, again in front of the clubhouse with the white awning. That’s for those who do not know Prestwick, those that do, enjoy the view.

Melvyn

PS OTM original long First Hole of 578 yards started where the car park ends today (two thirds down the right hand side of the photo). It would have run across the lower left side just above the bottom bunker shown on the aerial photo - check out course map then & Now shown below the aerial photo.

[Niall C]

Ralph

Check your e-mail as I have sent you some more information on Prestwick.

The clubhouse in the time of Old Tom was over and to the East of the railway tracks some couple of hundred yards away from the course, not as you might expect towards the sea (Links Hotel area). The Club Members purchased two cottages opposite the Red Lion Inn - one for Tom, and the other as a clubhouse - both buildings are still standing today albeit visibly reconstructed and was some distance from the course.  In 1866 after Old Tom went back to St Andrews the property was sold and the money used to build the current clubhouse.

The following map from 1922 is more or less the course when Prestwick last hosted The Open.



Melvyn

Melvyn

I came across a version of this map dated 1925, it looks pretty similiar. I'll ping it over to you next week when I'm back at base.

Niall

[Adrian_Stiff]

We have the press cuttings and map from the 1914 Open, Vardons sixth, hanging in our clubhouse, it is a bit different. I must check but I think the 2nd was (as is now) and the 3rd also. The obvious change is there was another hole after 6 and what is the present 11th was not there.

[Tom MacWood]

Here is an article from British Golf Illustrated describing the old 12-hole course.

[Tom MacWood]

This another article from Golf illustrated (9/20/1901), actually it is transcription of a presentation given by long-time Secretary Harry Hart on the occasion of Prestwick's Jubilee.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Intersting article Tom, that implies (if this article is 100% true) in the old 12 holer that the 10th hole was not to the current 15th green, looking at the plan the green used  for this hole would have perhaps been the bit on the back right (as the hole was played/front left as the now 15th) and a bit more.

[Tom MacWood]

Another interesting point, apparently they were playing golf on the links prior to the Club being formally founded, and prior to OTM being hired as the greenkeeper.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Tom

Thanks for the info.

Yes, golf has been played at Prestwick well before OTM. The club formed in 1851 and played on a basic course. When OTM arrived his first duty was to redesign the whole site.  This he did and stayed until 1864. Charlie who had been working for OTM took over after a little problem, settled back in his home town, developing and extending the course over the years. It was thanks to Charlie working with Old Tom that James Hunter met Old Tom's daughter resulting in my side of the family, well the only side of the family as only Elizabeth's & James children survived.

Back to the map, they are not to the same scale but the following might be more of interest to Adrian and others.










The last photo shows the 17th Green (old 2nd) above the Green Keepers sheds with the Sahara and the 15th Green (old 10th) just out of the photo on the left hand side, you can see part of one of the defending bunkers just in the picture.

Melvyn