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David Schofield

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"Small" Courses
« on: September 20, 2009, 02:14:14 PM »
Is 120 acres about the minimum for a "old dead guys" era golf course?  Wilmington Municipal in Golf Course in Wilmington, NC (Ross, 1926) is almost exactly 120 acres.  Merion East and West appear to be about 140 acres.

Are there any examples of modern courses on the same scale?
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Scott Warren

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2009, 02:33:27 PM »
If DG members want to measure a course, they can do so at http://www.acme.com/planimeter/

Just click along the border of the course and then look below the map for the size in both hectares and acres.
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Jason McNamara

Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2009, 02:50:28 PM »
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Carl Johnson

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2009, 03:50:27 PM »
The Google tool for measuring the size of an area is way cool (or is "way cool" out of date?).  I just applied it to our Carolina Golf Club course in downtown Charlotte.  It was a 1929 Ross course, par 70, until a couple of years ago.  I measured the old course (including club house, parking lot and very small practice tee) with the Google tool at 118 acres, just about the same as Ross's Wilmington Municipal course that David referred to.

For what it's worth: Five or six years ago the club purchased about 40 acres of undeveloped adjacent property.  Several holes have been lengthened, a couple of new holes added, a large pond constructed and two former holes converted to a new practice area.  Not counting the new practice area, we grew from 118 acres to 138 acres and from par 70 to par 71 (7,011 from the back).  Counting the practice area, we've grown to 150 acres (not including the remaining undeveloped part of the new acreage that serves as a buffer). 
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Jonathan Cummings

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2009, 06:27:07 PM »
Wannamoisett is built on a very tiny piece of property - 105 acres??  Hapuna on the Big Island is built on 42 acres of vegetated land....
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JeffTodd

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2009, 07:05:25 PM »
The most compact modern footprints I could think of are the Vineyard golf course (2004) in Egg Harbor, NJ, which the planimeter has at 147 acres, including the proshop and parking lot.

Colts Neck (NJ, 2000) came in at 141, which includes clubhouse, parking, and a driving range. However, I think the quality of the holes and the routing suffer due to the size of the property.

I tried a few other courses that were "small" and they all seem to come in the 140's.
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mike_beene

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2009, 07:45:15 PM »
I get 117 acres for our course,clubhouse ,parking lot,4 of our six tennis courts and half the driving range.About as tight as you can get.Lakewood Country Club in Dallas.
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Ken Moum

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2009, 09:25:46 PM »
My old Donald Ross here in Topeka is 111 acres for the course, 123 if you include the clubhouse, parking lot and range.

We have a local course, built about 20 years ago that's on only 114 acres for everything, including a pool and driving range, but it's a POS that includes, among other things, a 110-degree dogleg par four.

K
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 08:23:33 AM by kmoum »
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Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Forrest Richardson

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2009, 10:42:33 PM »
Perry Dye gave a short talk on this very subject at a forum I moderated last week. I believe it surprising the number of modern courses that have been created on compact parcels. I agree with Perry that the trend to the future may well be more and more short courses, designed purposefully on less acreage than the 200+ acre parcels we have seen since 1990.

As Perry aptly put it: "Long is wrong."
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Doug Wright

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2009, 10:18:29 AM »
Interesting tool. The Denver Country Club property measures about 124 acres all in, with clubhouse, parking, range etc., so the course itself must be well under 120 acres. 

Quote from: Forrest Richardson on September 20, 2009, 10:42:33 PM
Perry Dye gave a short talk on this very subject at a forum I moderated last week. I believe it surprising the number of modern courses that have been created on compact parcels. I agree with Perry that the trend to the future may well be more and more short courses, designed purposefully on less acreage than the 200+ acre parcels we have seen since 1990.

As Perry aptly put it: "Long is wrong."

A <20 year old course, Perry's Glenmoor CC in Denver measures under 110 acres. In this case, I can assure you that "compact" is not necessarliy better. I've never played another course where a house can (and has) been hit by the same slicing golfer's tee shot 2x in 3 holes. I can attest to this since this house used to be my brother in laws'. A non-golfer, he bought the house without consulting me. Maybe it's not Perry's fault--he may have been forced to put the course in the corridors left him by the developer. But it's a real shooting gallery.
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Josh Stevens

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2009, 10:32:48 AM »
Kingston Heath i think is only about 125 acres
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Forrest Richardson

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2009, 10:34:38 AM »
Or...maybe the course has been lengthened by twits!
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Tony_Chapman

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Re: "Small" Courses
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 11:02:08 AM »
This is awesome. I just measured my home course in York, NE. It a 6,000 yard, par-70 but it gets the job done as far as difficulty. The front nine was built in 1919 the back in 1988. The course, parking lot and clubhouse set on just under 99 acres. The club has a range, but they lease the land from a farmer that's not included in the figure.
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