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Tom MacWood

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Urbana CC
« on: September 17, 2009, 11:56:50 PM »
This historically significant course is rarely discussed
« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 09:39:30 PM by Tom MacWood »

Dean DiBerardino

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 09:39:12 AM »
Is 9+9 located on 9x4?

Tom MacWood

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 10:34:52 AM »
Hint: The course dates back to 1922.

Rich Goodale

Re: Name the course
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2009, 10:38:16 AM »
Tom

To save our time and Ran's bandwidth, why don't you just tell us what course it is, why you think it is historically signifcant and why this might be of interest to us?  Maybe then we can have a proper discussion.

Thanks in advance

Rich

Tom MacWood

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 10:52:13 AM »
Hint: The home course of arguably the greatest American golf architect.

Andrew Mitchell

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2009, 11:08:44 AM »
Hint: The home course of arguably the greatest American golf architect.

No idea who or which course you are referring to but does that mean this thread will devolve into the usual argument ;)
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Mark Pritchett

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 11:15:55 AM »
Philadelphia Cricket Club?

mark chalfant

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2009, 11:35:01 AM »
Tom,

The apparent rural charm makes me think it is Urbana Country Club in Ohio. This hilly course, frequented by the Dye family, is on my 2011  must see list.

Brian Laurent

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2009, 11:39:04 AM »
I was thinking Urbana as well.  Would be interested to see how the "Pink" Dye and PB Dye nines compare.
"You know the two easiest jobs in the world? College basketball coach or golf course superintendent, because everybody knows how to do your job better than you do." - Roy Williams | @brianjlaurent | @OHSuperNetwork

Tom MacWood

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2009, 01:36:55 PM »
Mark and Brian got it. The nine on the left is the original course designed by Paul Dye (Pete's father) in 1922; the nine on the right was recently designed by PB Dye (Pete's son). The two together create a very interesting contrast and a fun round. Definitely a must see for anyone interested in Dye and his infliuences, as Mark says. The course is a little over a half hour from my house.

Steve Wilson

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2009, 01:57:11 PM »
Tom Mac,

Have you played this course?  If so, perhaps you can discuss the hole at bottom right.  I presume it is a short par four.  Aside from the fairway and green bearing a striking resemblance to Dino from the Flintstones and the bunker that looks like an emoticon to indicate someone has just been goosed, there appears to be a considerable drop off to the left.  Is is level, uphill, downhill?   Just curious about the length and playing characteristics. 

Thanks in advance. 
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Dean DiBerardino

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2009, 02:27:39 PM »
Below is an excerpt about Urbana from Pete Dye's "Bury Me in a Pot Bunker":

« Last Edit: September 18, 2009, 02:35:40 PM by Dean DiBerardino »

Tom MacWood

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Re: Name the course
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2009, 08:52:46 PM »
Tom Mac,

Have you played this course?  If so, perhaps you can discuss the hole at bottom right.  I presume it is a short par four.  Aside from the fairway and green bearing a striking resemblance to Dino from the Flintstones and the bunker that looks like an emoticon to indicate someone has just been goosed, there appears to be a considerable drop off to the left.  Is is level, uphill, downhill?   Just curious about the length and playing characteristics. 

Thanks in advance. 

Steve
I have played the course a few times, and that hole is not level at all. The tee shot reminded me of the 5th at Crystal Down without the tree and the sisters, in their place is huge bolder in the middle of the fairway. The challenge (for me anyway) was to judge the lay up - to end up somewhere near the crest of the hill with a full or nearly full approach shot. The approach is over another depression to green perched up, which looks exceedingly narrow, and is severely undulating. It is a very challenging hole. It is 303 yards from the tips; trying to drive it near the green may be the best way to go. I'll try that next time.

RJ_Daley

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2009, 02:27:39 PM »
I should have posted yesterday when my first impression was Harrison Hills, because of the obvious dual styles.  I thought the old 9 looked very Langford-like, and that the new nine was Dye-like, on e of his protege's like Liddy.  The surrounding terrain looked Indiana-Like, but when I googled up the aerials of Culver and Harrison Hills, I was stumped.  So, I didn't guess... 

It looks like the impressions were close, Indiana, Langford era influence, and a more than mere Dye connection. v ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Billsteele

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2009, 08:02:45 PM »
RJ-Urbana is in central Ohio, not Indiana. Pete Dye grew up there before moving to Indianapolis.

Tom MacWood

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2009, 09:36:29 AM »
Based on the timing my guess the senior Dye's influence would've been Ross (early Ross), with nearby Springfield CC being the dominant influence. Other Ross courses in the general vicinity in 1922 would have been Dayton, Miami Valley, Piqua, Inverness, Scioto and Wyandot. In the clubhouse of Springfield CC there is a large board listing all the past club champions, and you see the Dyes' name up there for several years.

Chris Wirthwein

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2009, 09:52:53 PM »
Here's a little story from Pete about how his father came to came to the game of golf. (The excerpt is from my recent book about the history of Crooked Stick Golf.)

Pete is speaking about his father...

"In 1923, he had never played golf, and one time his car broke down while going through Farmington, Pennsylvania, and he had to stop there... There was a little nine-hole golf course there at the Summit Hotel.

...He had to wait on his car to be fixed, so he hit these golf balls and he got hooked on golf.

He didn't have much experience, but the following year he went back to our little town and built a little nine-hole golf course on some land that my mother's family owned."


Pete also talked about his experiences working on the golf course at Urbana:

"...I worked on that golf course every summer until the start of the war. And at that time, the superintendent or greenskeeper got drafted, and so at 16, I'm now the greenskeeper at Urbana Country Club, and I surely know everything about it. Somehow or another, I was able to kill all the greens. My father wasn't too pleased about that...

Here's a picture of Pete from around that time. It is his 1944 high school senior photo from Asheville School, Asheville, NC.


And here's another fun one from around that time (circa 1949)...Pete and the Slammer


More at www.crookedstickbook.com


noonan

Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2009, 03:11:28 PM »
Played Urbana CC yesterday in the Met 2 man.

It is possible to have 45 putts at this place if you are not careful.

This is a must play hidden gem.

TEPaul

Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2009, 03:27:09 PM »
"Pete also talked about his experiences working on the golf course at Urbana:

"...I worked on that golf course every summer until the start of the war. And at that time, the superintendent or greenskeeper got drafted, and so at 16, I'm now the greenskeeper at Urbana Country Club, and I surely know everything about it. Somehow or another, I was able to kill all the greens. My father wasn't too pleased about that..."


Very interesting! So it must have been Urbana that relates to this interesting story Pete told not long ago to the masses at dinner during a tournament at Pine Valley about how he met his wife Alice.

Alice was arguably the best known amateur in her state and Pete had heard all about her and was dying to meet her. So one day someone said:

"Pete, I've heard you wanted to meet Alice, and so here she is." They were introduced and Alice said to Pete: "So you're the idiot who burned up one of my favorite golf courses?"



Futhermore, that photograph above of Pete as a high school senior-----it is just frightening how much that looks like a young Mark Petersen, the Executive Director of both GAP and the Pa Golf Association.


On another note, it is said that one of the reasons Pete and Alice ended up around Delray Beach Florida is because Pete's father liked to go spend a lot of time there because he was so enamored with the architecture of local resident and architect Dick Wilson!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 03:35:38 PM by TEPaul »

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2009, 07:27:09 PM »
I don't know how much or little this will add to this thread, but here is the Preface to my book PETE DYE GOLF COURSES---50 YEARS OF VISIONARY DESIGN, which had the good fortune to win the International Network of Golf Book of the Year Award in 2008:



PREFACE:

URBANA COUNTRY CLUB
Paul Francis “Pink” Dye
With nine holes added by P.B. Dye

It is remarkable how life so often turns on a whim, a chance encounter, a moment of happenstance.  If it was not for a timely automobile breakdown some 90 years ago, there would probably be no such thing as a Pete Dye golf course.
“My dad had never played golf before,” explains Pete Dye.  “Several years before I was born, his automobile broke down on the old Federal Highway Number 40 when he was returning from Washington D.C. back to our hometown of Urbana, Ohio.  The breakdown occurred in Farmington, Pennsylvania, near a historic hotel called the Summit Inn Resort.  He stayed overnight while repairs were made, hit some golf balls, and played nine holes for the first time.  He was hooked!”
“Pink” Dye quickly decided a course was needed in Urbana, and procured 60-odd acres from his in-laws for construction. “My mother’s side was the Johnson family,” continues Pete.  “They had about a thousand acres, and they gave dad some hilly, difficult acreage that couldn’t be cultivated as farmland.” Thus began a tradition of Dye architects making do with exceedingly difficult terrain.
   “My dad got a small group of investors together, sought out the great architect Donald Ross who was working nearby in Ohio at the time for some advice, and started to work building his own course.  It was six holes to begin with, and then three more were added the next year.  I came into the world a few years after that, and as a boy, began working on that golf course, cutting greens, watering and helping with routine maintenance from as far back as I can remember.”
The course itself is partially wooded, surrounded by cornfield.  It features some long range views amidst its moderate elevation changes, with a couple of farm ponds and a few adjacent farmhouses.  There are some uphill blind shots, small greens canted from back to front, and no shortage of side-hill or uneven lies. Ohio has long been a golf-rich state, with superior venues like Scioto, Camargo, Firestone, Inverness, Muirfield Village and the Pete Dye-designed Golf Club, to name but half-a-dozen.  Among these bigger names, the rural qualities of the Urbana Country Club, particularly after its 1993 expansion, qualify it as one of the state’s hidden gems.
    “When my 94 year-old grandmother told me to finish the golf course that grandfather started, that was built all those years prior on her family’s land, all I could say was, “yes ma’am, I’m ready,” recalls P.B. Dye, who undertook the task some 70 years after the original course was built.  Working from a course routing produced by his late uncle Roy, Pete’s brother, P.B. made certain to emulate the pushed-up greens that his grandfather had originally built, though little other dirt was moved in construction.  “I could live anywhere I’d like,” continues P.B.  “But I choose to make my summer home in a log cabin next to the second tee of this golf course.  That’s how much it means to me.”
Andy Doss, like his first cousin P.B., is the grandson of course creator Pink Dye.  He is also Pete’s nephew, and a former president of the Urbana Country Club.  “Our expansion budget was tight, so we knocked down the necessary trees, opted for single-line irrigation, required minimal drainage because there was so little earth moved, and tried to make the addition fit in seamlessly with the original course,” states Doss, who runs the in-town insurance firm that was begun by his great-grandfather in 1893.  He relays an anecdote that paints a clear picture of the rural sensibility of the golf course and the small town of 11,000, located midway between Dayton and Columbus in central Ohio.  “When the additional nine holes were built, P.B. wanted to construct dirt greens like our grandfather did, instead of modern sand greens.  We got the dirt from a local potato farmer, and when the bent grass starting to come up, so did a few potato sprouts!”
”It’s a pleasant Midwestern golf course, no frills,” offers Perry Dye.  “But the fact that my grandfather insisted on building a golf course in a town that at the time only had 6,000 residents, with maybe six golfers, is really something.  And now here we are, nearly a century later, with his descendants building courses all over the world.”      
The original and indigenous Dye design, Urbana Country Club, is woven into the fabric of the community, and has been a simple and straightforward place to enjoy the game since shortly after Pink Dye turned his first shovelful of earth back in 1922.  “It’s where the story really begins,” says Pete Dye, ostensibly referring to his 50-year career as a course designer, but at the same time, to the celebration of his remarkable career that follows. 



 





   


Chris Wirthwein

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2009, 07:48:49 PM »
For TEPaul...

A couple more photos of Pete and Alice. This one from June 18, 1954 -- Pete captures the Indianapolis District Championship at CC of Indianapolis (Tom Bendelow, 1914) with Alice by his side. This is Pete's first vistory since winning the Ohio high school championship 10 years earlier...



And this one of Alice in 1962 (tournament and course unknown)...



More at www.crookedstickbook.com

TEPaul

Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2009, 08:41:29 PM »
ChrisW:

Thanks for those photos. Pete and Alice are individually pretty much a trip but together they are a real trip----and by that I mean sooo interesting. As good as Pete could play and even given his career competitive record it has always been my impression that he defers to and always has to his wife Alice that way, as he probably should.

Pete Dye is a real heavy-weight in the history and evolution of golf architecture as he should be and for some truly interesting reasons, but one should never forget that Alice is also a golf course architect and has been for many, many years and if Pete can be considered a truly opinionated and interesting guy on the subject of architecture, Alice may even top him in that way too.

To me it is just great to see a guy who got to the top of his profession who truly respects the opinons of his wife on that profession and that would definitely describe Pete Dye.

Many may not understand it as well as they should but throughout their maybe 50-55 plus year marriage, in the area of golf course architecture they have always been a fascinating TEAM perhaps unlike any other----ever!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 08:45:59 PM by TEPaul »

Tom MacWood

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2009, 09:07:35 PM »

This is a must play hidden gem.


I agree with you, and I must say IMO Ohio is blessed with a good number of hidden gems.

Chris Wirthwein

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Re: Urbana CC
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2009, 10:57:12 PM »
Thanks TE...

I had a great time getting to know Pete and Alice during the writing of the history of Crooked Stick book. I spent many, many hours interviewing them and it was fun watching them work together as a team as they recounted to me the history of their "firstborn." Pete defers to Alice on many issues, as does Alice to Pete. The respect they have for eash other is readily apparent. I guess that's what makes a great team.

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