Why is Bunker Style Uniformity...

[Mike Hendren]

such a big hairy deal on any one golf course?

Mike

[Bart Bradley]

Mike...

I think the bunkers (and everything else) would, ideally,  be harmonious....They needn't be uniform but disharmonious visual objects detract from the aesthetics...

By the way, so do "big hairy deals"   

Just my opinion,

Bart

[Joe Hancock]

My living room is kind of shabby-chic/ mission style/ contemporary/ modern/ Victorian, and it holds about 6 people comfortably.

I guess I have no problem with uniformity.

 

[Sean_A]

such a big hairy deal on any one golf course?

Mike

Bogey

It isn't a big deal unless the bunkers are dreadful.  One of my favourite courses, Beau Desert, has some great bunkers, but mixed in with some awful bunkers.  New Zealand is the same.  The lesser ones really stand out and will cause people to shudder.  If they are gonna be mixed, get it right and 7th heaven awaits.  Get it wrong and its hell damnation.  The one course I have seen pull off the mix it up approach is Harlech, but nobody else seems to think so - heavy sigh.

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

There is some basic agreement round here that our evaluation of Golf Courses is subjective…(agreed?).  People often compare it to one’s choice in music.  Perhaps the bunker debate is the most subjective of all and that’s why it keeps coming to the top.  If there were a bunker continuum it would be something like

Aesthetics

‘Naturalness’

Site appropriateness

Maintainability

Escapability/Playability

Effect on play

The aesthetics are the one are we all agree is subjective but it colours our views all the other points. We all have different expectations of what a golf course should look and perform like and while it may be interesting to ask others whether they like this one or that one, we never seem to progress further with bunkers.


Once again the discussions on here lead me back to Frasier.

From the first episode.  The Good Son.

 Frasier: Let me get you a beer, Dad.  So, ah, what do you
         think of what I've done with the place, eh? [returns and
         sits on the couch, handing a beer to Martin] You know, every
         item here was carefully selected.  This lamp by Corbusier,
         the chair by Eames, and this couch is an exact replica of
         the one Coco Chanel had in her Paris atelier.
 Martin: Nothing matches.
Frasier: Well, it's a, it's a style of decorating, it's called
         "eclectic." [off Martin's look] Well, the theory behind it
         is, if you've got really fine pieces of furniture, it doesn't
         matter if they match - they will go together.
 Martin: It's your money.


The doorbell rings.  Frasier gets up; as he goes to the door, he
gestures at the view of the Seattle skyline offered by the balcony
windows.

Frasier: Dad, what do you think of the view?  Hey, that's the Space
         Needle there!
 Martin: Oh, thanks for pointing that out.  Being born and raised
         here, I never would have known.

Frasier chafes briefly; then, he opens the door to a delivery man,
who has with him an old, battered, and aesthetically unpleasing
Barcalounger.

    Man: Delivery for Martin Crane.
 Martin: Oh, in here! [gets up]
    Man: Coming through!

He quickly wheels The Armchair into the room.  Frasier and Niles
(who has returned) look on aghast at this latest addition to the
apartment's luxury furnishings.

Frasier: Excuse me, excuse me, wait a minute-
    Man: Where d'you want it?
 Martin: Where's the TV?
  Niles: [points] It's in that credenza.
 Martin: Point it at that thing.
    Man: [sees a designer chair in the way] What about this chair?
  Niles: Ah, the chair?  Here, let me get it out of your way.

He lifts it away carelessly, and it is replaced by The Armchair.

Frasier: [shocked] Niles, Niles, Niles, be careful with that, that's
         a Wassily! 

The delivery man leaves.  Martin sits in The Armchair, newly
installed as the centrepiece of the apartment.

Frasier: Oh look, Dad, as dear as I'm sure this, this piece is to you
         I, I just don't think it goes with anything here!
 Martin: I know, it's eclectic!





Continue…

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think a taste in bunker styles is very subjective...

But I also believe that bunkers on one course should ideally be of a similar (not necessarily identical) style as it helps to create harmony within the course...

[Chris Buie]

I think a taste in bunker styles is very subjective...

Which one do you prefer?

[Anthony Gray]

 
  Bogey,

  Difficult to put in words but you notice when things do not flow. Like Bethpage no. 18. It just stands out. Pebble Beach no. 15 has this deep bunker that has steps now. After playing the first 14 holes it is like WOW where did that come from.

  Anthony

[Pete_Pittock]

Arcadia Bluffs has two distinct bunker styles. They both work effectively for their local environment. There may be a theory about that.

[Garland Bayley]

Bogey,

Your question has a one word answer.

MONEY

If you have it, you can flaunt it with uniformity in bunker style, ground conditions, vegetation conditions, etc. If you don't have it, you do the best can can with what you have.

[Anthony Gray]

Bogey,

Your question has a one word answer.

MONEY

If you have it, you can flaunt it with uniformity in bunker style, ground conditions, vegetation conditions, etc. If you don't have it, you do the best can can with what you have.

  Garland,

  Are you a banker?

  Anthony

[Garland Bayley]

Bogey,

Your question has a one word answer.

MONEY

If you have it, you can flaunt it with uniformity in bunker style, ground conditions, vegetation conditions, etc. If you don't have it, you do the best can can with what you have.

  Garland,

  Are you a banker?

  Anthony

No,

But, I play one on the internet.

Garland

[Lou_Duran]

Uniformity is unimportant to me, though having a comination of mostly clean, linear edged bunkers and some frilly or browed types would be aesthetically jarring.  I like the severity of the bunker to correlate with the demands of the shot required.  A fairway bunker on a wide, shortish hole should be deep and penal.  Bunkers guarding the green of a long hole with a difficult green should not be very severe.  I like small bunkers, large bunkers, directional bunkers, and bunkers set back from greens that serve to confuse.  I don't like heavy vegetation like yucca and thick natives growing in and around the bunkers (Prairie Dunes).    

[Garland Bayley]

Uniformity is unimportant to me, though having a comination of mostly clean, linear edged bunkers and some frilly or browed types would be aesthetically jarring.  I like the severity of the bunker to correlate with the demands of the shot required.  A fairway bunker on a wide, shortish hole should be deep and penal.  Bunkers guarding the green of a long hole with a difficult green should not be very severe.  I like small bunkers, large bunkers, directional bunkers, and bunkers set back from greens that serve to confuse.  I don't like heavy vegetation like yucca and thick natives growing in and around the bunkers (Prairie Dunes).   

Joshua Crane is alive and well in Texas, and apparently a neighbor of Jeff Brauer.
 

[Kalen Braley]

I think Michael makes a great point.  A couple of examples:

1)   From what I've seen in pics, Castle Stuart seems to be the poster boy for this.  Its got revetted bunkers, partially revetted, partially blownout/revetted bunkers, and full blowouts.  And from the reviews I've seen its been almost all positive.

2)  Old Mac is also going to have some mix-mash styles too if I've read the threads correctly.  Blowouts, a few revetted, some with sleepers.

Does it really matter if the bunkers are uniform just as long as the entire collection "works" and "fits"??

[Ian Andrew]

It's often the only element that can link very different areas of a property together - and make the golf course cohesive.

Friars Head works because of the careful and clever link created through the bunkering. The trasitions between the dunesland and the fields are breathtaking.

[Mark_Fine]

I agree with Ian in that bunker style can add to the cohesiveness of the golf course (or destroy it for that matter).  Play The Architect's Club in NJ to see different bunker styles taken to the extreme.  It works there only because you know what the intent was of the design - that being to display different design concepts/styles from many different architects.  However, it is a "collection" of holes vs. a flowing golf course in harmony from start to finish.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Uniformity is unimportant to me, though having a comination of mostly clean, linear edged bunkers and some frilly or browed types would be aesthetically jarring.  I like the severity of the bunker to correlate with the demands of the shot required.  A fairway bunker on a wide, shortish hole should be deep and penal.  Bunkers guarding the green of a long hole with a difficult green should not be very severe.  I like small bunkers, large bunkers, directional bunkers, and bunkers set back from greens that serve to confuse.  I don't like heavy vegetation like yucca and thick natives growing in and around the bunkers (Prairie Dunes).   

Joshua Crane is alive and well in Texas, and apparently a neighbor of Jeff Brauer.
 

Lou is a neighbor of mine, although since he moved back from CA, not as close as he used to be.  That said, how did I get dragged into this?

While the answer may be money, I don't see it as flaunting excess money.  For 90% of courses, I presume maintaining one bunker style probably allows it to be done by less skilled crew members (with the better skilled ones tending greens) and more importantly, with only one set of machines and hand tools.  If there were three or four bunker styles, it might require quite an expenditure that most supers and budget setting greens chairs would just as soon avoid.

And of course, there are those who think that every hole ought to look the same to create theme of style.  Personally, I like variation, but also believe you can do that with shape, size, depth, arrangement, etc. without changing the basic theme too much.  I do have a few coruses (like the Quarry) with both waste bunkers and formal bunkers.