Los Angeles CC to host 2017 Walker Cup

[Chuck Brown]

I simply say thanks to the USGA for selecting these spectacular and too-little-seen venues, and thanks to these wonderful clubs for hosting the events.  The Walker Cup has just about become my favorite event in all of golf.

[Brian_Ewen]

Very cool. I'm taking my son to the Walker Cup tomorrow. I'm looking forward to taking him to NGLA in 2013 for the Walker Cup. Now we have 2017 to look forward to.

Ed , I am sad that you are not looking forward to 2011  .

[rjsimper]

Bunkers short of 11 at LACC with boring edges vs bunkers short of LACC with thrilling edges = no difference in thrill of completing the task.

 

No?

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5176/rcdcomp.jpg

Of course not - the thrill of execution is the same. The strategy of the hole is the same. The punishment is no worse either on 11 at LACC or in your photoshopped creation whether the bunkers are jagged, blown out, or boring..and likewise the reward no greater. I have said all along, and you have known this about me in our past discussions - on my old analogy, was the thrill was robbed from the 18th at Pebble when they introduced the seawall?

I am a golfer first and foremost. I'd rather shoot 72 on the "old" LACC than shoot 78 on the "current" LACC, despite the improvements. I suspect you'd rather plod around the new course and soak in the bunkers as you go than shoot a low round on the old version...and that's fine for you, it's just not for me.

Again if you want to discuss what is PRETTIER, then you will get no argument from me. The bunkers on 11 as they appear now are WINDOW DRESSING. Not that there is anything wrong with window dressing, but to make it sound like the fundamental nature or strategy of the hole is being changed because someone wanted to get creative on the edges.

Change the turf conditions short of 11, introduce a viable run-up shot, and you've made it a better hole. Change the bunker edges and you've made it a prettier, more photogenic hole. Either way, I reiterate that I feel the exact same level of satisfaction if I am able to hit a good shot onto the green.

[DMoriarty]

Hey Ryan, Are you in tomorrow at 6?

Can't speak to these particular bunkers but generally I think the bunkers had gotten smaller and become volcanoed.  So the restored bunkers might have more than just a visual impact.  And if you are going to fix something you might as well do it right.   

The tree thinning may make a larger and more signifact impact on the beauty and playability.  Not necessarily all that could have been done but it is amazing how a little bit opens things up .

[Bill_McBride]

Very cool. I'm taking my son to the Walker Cup tomorrow. I'm looking forward to taking him to NGLA in 2013 for the Walker Cup. Now we have 2017 to look forward to.

Ed , I am sad that you are not looking forward to 2011  .

Brian, it would be appropriate to start thinking about booking rooms in the Aberdeen area now, no?  I booked for Newcastle about a year out and the best I could do for two couples in the same hotel was in Kilkeel, half an hour south.

[ed_getka]

Very cool. I'm taking my son to the Walker Cup tomorrow. I'm looking forward to taking him to NGLA in 2013 for the Walker Cup. Now we have 2017 to look forward to.

Ed , I am sad that you are not looking forward to 2011  .

Brian,
   Please don't interpret my comment to mean I am not looking forward to the  2011 matches. I simply don't have the means to travel to Aberdeen to attend the event. There is a big difference between driving 6 hours up to Philadelphia for the day and flying to Scotland.

[George Pazin]

As long as your gospel admits that it's eye candy - nobody ever said eye candy was a bad thing, but it's still eye candy

So there's no chance those bunkers play any differently than a straight edged bunker? There's no chance that the appearance of a bunker - not necessarily these - can affect someone view of it and hence perhaps how he plays the shot?

If I had the time, I'd dig up a thread from a year or two ago about the pursuit of natural and how it's not just about the look.

[David Stamm]

As long as your gospel admits that it's eye candy - nobody ever said eye candy was a bad thing, but it's still eye candy

So there's no chance those bunkers play any differently than a straight edged bunker? There's no chance that the appearance of a bunker - not necessarily these - can affect someone view of it and hence perhaps how he plays the shot?

If I had the time, I'd dig up a thread from a year or two ago about the pursuit of natural and how it's not just about the look.

Thank you, George. This is something I was trying to touch on. If the hazard draws your attention to it more because of it's aesthetics, does that not have an effect subconciously on some players? Perhaps Ryan's self discipline precludes him from being seduced by such things, but it does effect some players, and if so, does that not make the effort to use such tactics worth the architects attention? By giving it more "teeth" visually, it also provides a lesser player the opportunity to feel like that they have negotiated a more "fearsome" looking obstacle and therefore a sense of accomplishment. It's not always about getting from point A to B for a good player. It's about affording ALL players their own challenges. Seeing a bunker in the MacKenzie or Bell style certainly gets my attention more than a doughnut in the ground, but then I am not as good of a player as Ryan is. Not to mention the fact that they are, hold on to your hats, easier to maintain, so why not use them if they can make the experience more exciting if they fit the surrounds? These architects did not arbitariliy choose these designs, they were emulating the styles seen in the UK. All one has to do is read "British Golf Links" to see what they saw when visiting the courses there.

[jkinney]

Very, very cool. There have been some rumors about them doing something with the USGA....but I'm still shocked.

With the work in process, I'll simply say they have a LOT to look forward to....

Gil Hanse's bunker restoration in this photo follows closely the original shaping by Billy Bell, George Thomas' assistant. This is only the beginning of LACC North's renovation, which starts in earnest in February, 2010, when the course will be closed for 7-8 months.

I don't think Billy Bell would much care for his bunker shaping being called "frilly", but each to his own. As for the angle from which the above photo was taken, it is from well right of the tee and from much closer to the green. The 11th is one of the world's best par 3's, IMO.

[Jon Spaulding]

Yes, the photo was taken from the left of #16 in an attempt to get a sense of the fronting slope and the fill in the rear. Here's a view from the tee, just for Simper. I can't wait until the green on this hole is put back to it's proper size.



Below is a photo of the in-process 13th. With the most beloved house in golf in the background. Note the tree removal on the right, the increased fairway width, and the difference in bunkering at the green. Also, note the removal of the large tree up by the green which has been replaced with a tightly mown chipping/putting area. It sure would be nice if we could post larger photos here.

[Ian Larson]

With a new Superintendent coming in let's hope we can start seeing this place playing fast and firm instead of waterlogged. That approach on 11 needs to be firmed up with aggressive verticutting and topdressing.

[Tim Leahy]

I played LACC North in college in the 1980's and the greens were the fastest best maintained I have ever played. Are they still Poa? Wonder if they will have a special party at the Mansion for the occasion? The blimp may get an eyefull!

[Jon Spaulding]

With a new Superintendent coming in let's hope we can start seeing this place playing fast and firm instead of waterlogged. That approach on 11 needs to be firmed up with aggressive verticutting and topdressing.

Tru dat! The fronting area on 11 will be in my prayers, as well as many others......

It should also help with the green being expanded slightly in the front left area.

[Ian Larson]

I played LACC North in college in the 1980's and the greens were the fastest best maintained I have ever played. Are they still Poa? Wonder if they will have a special party at the Mansion for the occasion? The blimp may get an eyefull!

Hathaway was the superintendent back in the 80's. Who is actually a pretty remarkable superintendent, and is now at The Bridges of Rancho Santa Fe. Both courses greens were redone 12 years ago and planted with A4 bent. The North still has most of its bentgrass while the South has been given up on and let go being 100% poa.

The efforts to keep the new greens entirely pure bentgrass has been next to nothing. In an arid and dry climate that the Los Angeles basin has, allowing poa to invade in on brand new bentgrass greens is unacceptable in an area like the Los Angeles basin where the climate is arid and rainfall is zero. The Latino workforce was given the freedom to water the new greens ('97) unsupervised as they pleased. Obviously overwatered, the poa came right in.

With the upcoming restoration hopefully the clubs investment will be better managed with a new superintendent and not gone to waste with over watering the new greens again.

[Bill_McBride]

i wonder if the club allows the same golf shoes on both courses.  You could track poa from the South course and contaminate the pure bent greens of the North course.    This must be a super's nightmare.

[Joel_Stewart]

I played LACC North in college in the 1980's and the greens were the fastest best maintained I have ever played. Are they still Poa? Wonder if they will have a special party at the Mansion for the occasion? The blimp may get an eyefull!

Hathaway was the superintendent back in the 80's. Who is actually a pretty remarkable superintendent, and is now at The Bridges of Rancho Santa Fe. Both courses greens were redone 12 years ago and planted with A4 bent. The North still has most of its bentgrass while the South has been given up on and let go being 100% poa.

The efforts to keep the new greens entirely pure bentgrass has been next to nothing. In an arid and dry climate that the Los Angeles basin has, allowing poa to invade in on brand new bentgrass greens is unacceptable in an area like the Los Angeles basin where the climate is arid and rainfall is zero. The Latino workforce was given the freedom to water the new greens ('97) unsupervised as they pleased. Obviously overwatered, the poa came right in.

With the upcoming restoration hopefully the clubs investment will be better managed with a new superintendent and not gone to waste with over watering the new greens again.

How is it possible that the North kept out the poa using your analogy?  Same workers, same grass, same watering should have the same result?

[Ian Larson]

LACC uses a section man system. The North does to this day and the South stopped a little over two years ago. A "section man" system is where one guy looks over 3, maybe 4 holes. He mows the greens, mows the tees, rakes the bunkers and is in charge of all the watering. He basically just has his own schedule that is barely ever changed. The mornings were spent mowing and the afternoons were spent watering. With very little supervision and whether or not the greens actually needed watering. The mentality was to put the greens to bed before 2 o'clock to prevent any and all wilt that may happen after everyone has left. This method also produces inconsistencies from section to section on the same golf course. Every guy is going to water differently and at different volumes. Inconsistencies in rooting, firmness and poa quantities. On the South alone where they are mostly poa, there are sections where there is still a good bit of bentgrass left because that section guy didnt water as often and as heavy. The only difference in the percentage of poa from the South to the North is because of a little more chemical use in the early days of the greens life back in the 90's. The North continued the use of anti-poa chemicals longer than what the South did and we all know that the money is there to have continued on both courses to this day. But the South was just completely let go so it quickly went to poa. The North is mostly A4 bent but not pure by any means, theres still a good bit of poa. There was alot of inconsistent mismanagement over the years but the point is that in an area like Los Angeles with its climate and little to no rain fall....Bentgrass greens should remain bentgrass greens especially at LACC.