Lessons from the Walker Cup

[TEPaul]

"What's the problem with the best amateurs in the world needing a three wood to get home on a par 3?   It is a gigantic green."


Sully:

Here's a really good question about the setup on Merion's 3rd on Saturday. As you know Mike Davis chose to play that hole on Saturday from the tip tee on #6 which made #3 play at something like 275!! The question is would he have chosen to do that had it not poured rain on Friday thereby essentially wiping out a really firm green condition? Personally, I doubt he would have but like Marucci I do know Mike Davis pretty well and was talking to him at the Walker Cup and that is something I sure can ask him at some point.

I think his answer would tell us a whole lot about the differences between a trully IMM and what can happen to it with rain!

A bit of Davis trivia info on that 3rd Saturday setup. He said he did not like the pin position he chose for that 275 yard tee shot!! He said that pin was one that should have been used for basically no more than a mid-iron. I would guess the pin he probably felt he should've used for that 275 tee shot was one way back right so the players coming in with a wood could have a better opportunity to filter it off the over-all left to right green contours back there. That pin and shot to it would've been a bit more "redanish."

Wayne, I apologize to you for even using that word on here for #3, 

[JMEvensky]

Does the Walker Cup captain have as much say-so about course set up as the Ryder Cup captain?

[JESII]

I would bet this one did since he has also involved with the club's golf and green committees...typically, I don't know.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Does the Walker Cup captain have as much say-so about course set up as the Ryder Cup captain?

According to Buddy Marucci in the Feature Interview here on GCA:

Q:  As host Captain, what role do you play in course set-up?

A:  Course set up is left to the USGA.

[JMEvensky]

Does the Walker Cup captain have as much say-so about course set up as the Ryder Cup captain?

According to Buddy Marucci in the Feature Interview here on GCA:

Q:  As host Captain, what role do you play in course set-up?

A:  Course set up is left to the USGA.

Thanks.

[Kyle Harris]

Sure it's a large green, but without any runup it's hardly receptive for a shot of that length -- even for those freaks that are professionals.

Is it that bad that NOBODY blinked when they read that about this event?

What's the problem with the best amateurs in the world needing a three wood to get home on a par 3?   It is a gigantic green.

Jim,

Absolutely nothing. Read Dan's statement very closely. Specifically the last word.

[Robin Doodson]

Sadly the mowing lengths is the best way to protect the architecture as well. Many great greens are not meant to be 10 plus.

Tiger,

I can assure you that the practice of mowing greens at different heights has been commonplace at the British Open for many years. When the weather picks up it can be impossible to keep the balls on the greens so it is often necessary to not mow particular greens if there is going to be an issue. The R and A are terrified of a cancellation of play.

robin

[JESII]

Kyle,

How many of the US team will be amateurs come Christmas 2010?

[Bill_McBride]

Gavin Dear was a great interview at the W/C.  He blatantly stated that he has always gone out first, that he loves to go out first for any team (junior, regional national) for which he plays.  Unlike our leadoff hitters in american baseball, the heavy hitter in Dear's mind is the leadoff hitter.  He represented his team very well.

Didn't Crenshaw send Tiger out first in the Ryder Cup at Brookline?  I think that's the best strategy, get a point early.

I also remember the National League sending Willie Mays out as leadoff batter in an All Star game back when the National League won more than it lost!

Bill,

Thats putting it nice considering the NL has only won the All-Star game 3 times in the last 22 years...   

Well, check out 1963 - 1982:

"the National League still holds the all-time advantage at 41-36-2, meaning the NL went 38-19-1 from 1933 to 1987 with the following dominant streaks of their own:

    * 11 in a row (1972-1982)
    * 8 in a row (1963-1970)
    * 19 out of 20 (1963-1982)"

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2009/07/mlb-all-star-game-history-year-by-year-results-winners-individual-career-single-game-records/

Don't mess with me, Kalen. 

[Matt_Ward]

Beyond the course dimension I believe the logistical aspect is still the unknown entity in the mix.

No doubt the course looked great -- hosting the US AM and Walker Cup matches have been a nice warm-up but the real nature of what comes is uncertain.

Merion is a very tight and cramped club. The US Open -- since the '81 event has grown dramatically since that time. In addition, you have the array of corporate tents, the ever larger media center and TV compound and to add to even more tighter feeling -- you have the USGA's desire to keep rough from being walked on by galleries so that ropes will be expanded further out.

The holding down of tickets will help matters but gallery flow will be a major task -- can't wait to see what happens if Tiger is leaving the green at #12 and walking to #13 just as Phil is leaving #1 green and heading to #2.

In '93 Baltusrol was skewered by a number of media, notably Dan Jenkins, for the inability to handle traffic in and around the club. Although I didn't see the issue as being that bad for that event -- the demands Merion will face will clearly be a storyline that could either positively (if all goes well on that front) or becomes the anchor around its neck.

No doubt the amount of H20 clearly held down the firm and fast conditions at the event. Players could routinely count oin shots stopping upon impact. Without dry conditions it's possible the four-round record for the US Open could be broken at Merion. I agree w Ed G -- the total score matters not (save for the USGA and possibly some Merion members) because if the event in '13 provides the kind of theater that brings to the surface the qualities of a number of the top players then little will matter on how many under anyone is.

By the way -- although others have likely mentioned it several times -- I really see the par-3 17th as one of the best long holes of this type that doesn't have any H20 involved. Just a superb hole that asks for everything from those who play it.

In regards to the 3rd -- I like the extended length but clearly the receptivity of the green has much to do with that. Unlike the par-3 8th at Oakmont which provides for shots to use the ground and bounce on the surface there.

[Rick Sides]

What do you guys think Fowler would have shot on Saturday or Sunday had it been stroke play under those conditions?

[Rick Sides]

My favorite part of the Walker Cup was the match between Stiggy and Peter U.  Here is Stiggy, a 5'4 little ball of fire who started golf by finding a golf club in a local dump because he was very poor, versus Peter U, whose father is the CEO of the most well known golf club company in the world! I love Stiggy.