Caddies - Why do you like 'em? Why don't you?

[Bob_Huntley]

That's why doubles are the scourge of caddying because they make the #1 rule of caddying impossible. 

Dave,

Then you must avoid Cypress Point like the plague.

Bob

[Jay Flemma]

To me, the first duty of a caddie is to read the greens for me.  That stands head and shoulders above everything else, (except basic civility and social skills).

I will say I don't like being FORCED to take a caddie if I don't want one if I have to share him with someone else, and especially if the caddie fee and tip are exorbitant.  A lot of clubs with caddie programs it seems like you pay double for half the service.

Jay,

We are birds of a different feather.  Usually the last thing I want my caddie is reading a green for me as figuring out a green is probably the funnest part of golfing...at least for me.  My one bad experience with a caddy was he wouldn't shut up on the greens and kept blathering on about where to aim, how hard to hit it, etc.

Well if I'm a club I've never played or at a place with tricky greens like Pinehurst or oakmont, local knowledge form a GOOD caddie is critical.  My guy Bobby Hill - still the best caddie I've ever had - was invaluable to me Pinehurst.  With his help, I shot 86 first time out.

but last weekend at ________ (name deleted) I had a caddie who was AWFUL at reading the greens.  he was way off most of the day, I mean by feet.  i don''t think he knew how to read a green, let alone on the course he was caddying for.  he was nice in otherr ways, but I had to play like a baseball pitcher, shaking his off.  At one point he pointed to a spot half a cup away from the hole and I just said, "Nope. it breaks much more than that"   ...LIKE THREE FEET!  I made the putt.

[Chris Buie]

One caddy story I recall was a guy who had caddied for Arnold Palmer the previous day.  He was caddying for another pro the next day and they came upon a par-3 with water in the front.  The pro asked what Palmer had hit and the caddy said "5-iron".  The pro said "well, Palmer and I hit it about the same distance, give me the 5-iron."  The guy hit a nice 5-iron that went into the drink.  The pro says "I thought you said Palmer hit a 5-iron?"  The caddy says "he did hit a 5-iron, and hit in in the same place you did".

[Anthony Gray]

  One thing we did at Bandon was each player put in an extra 20 bucks and we played a skins game. The winning caddy got the extra money. It was alot of fun for the players and the caddies.

  Anthony

[Joel Zuckerman]

I just read this entire thread, which is a rarity for me and something of a time-indulgence.  I never would have suspected that there would be so many posters who either:  

1)  Had little or no experience with caddies.
2)  Had such negative (or indifferent) experiences with caddies.

This ennui among the general golf population?  I can totally understand.

But among the GCA--Discussion Group?  You of the supposedly high golf IQ's, lover of the ODG-designed courses, aficionados of Bandon, Sand Hills, Ballyneal, etc?  I am shocked, to say the least!

Personally, I've had caddies at tons of name-brand courses throughout the USA, Scotland and Ireland, including two rounds at Whistling Straits just this past weekend.  (Which is the only way you can play most of these courses, anyway)  I also belong to a caddie-only, walking-only club.  Maybe I've been lucky, because most of the caddies I've had have been pleasant and helpful, and some have been fantastic.  There have been a few dogs, but the same can be said of a certain percentage of waitresses, barbers, etc.

The bottom line is always the Bottom Line:  If someone else was picking up the tab, or the caddie fee wasn't prohibitive, wouldn't most of you prefer to have someone carrying the bag, raking the bunker, cleaning the ball?   Pulling clubs and green reading are more personal choices, but I generally ask the caddy from the outset if he/she feels as if they are competent green readers, and plenty have demurred, saying it wasn't their field of expertise.

[Mark Smolens]

Played Skokie for the 1st time in about 15 years last Friday and Pedro on the bag was awesome.  I'm a horrible green reader, but he was the best.  I made more putts over 15' than I have made all season, and it was 100% due to him.  He hustled all over the place because he was double bagging, and I shared him with our softball coach (who played the red tees).  Made a beautiful day on the course even more special.

While I've had some bad caddies and caddy experiences, on the whole I enjoy playing golf with a caddy -- just as I enjoy carrying a bag for a friend on occasion.  Surfer Dave at Bandon was great last October.

[Brent Hutto]

The bottom line is always the Bottom Line:  If someone else was picking up the tab, or the caddie fee wasn't prohibitive, wouldn't most of you prefer to have someone carrying the bag, raking the bunker, cleaning the ball?   Pulling clubs and green reading are more personal choices, but I generally ask the caddy from the outset if he/she feels as if they are competent green readers, and plenty have demurred, saying it wasn't their field of expertise.

In total honesty, my answer is definitely no.

The first couple times it was an interesting sort of "king for a day" experience and I will say that in a steady rain having a ready umbrella and someone to keep my grips dry is a major benefit. But I only play one or two rounds a year at most in those conditions and under normal circumstances I enjoy the entire game, not just hitting the shots.

And do not underestimate the discomfort that many of us have with employing a "personal servant", even if only for four hours. For those who come from certain backgrounds, being "serviced" like that can seem like an incredibly pretentious and degenerate lifestyle.

[Steve Wilson]

I had a fabulous post elucidating and clarifying this entire topic, but some random combination of keystrokes caused it to be erased.  Perhaps when I return from my golf banquet this evening (after thirty two years one of my teammates and a league founder has his first championship trophy) I'll try to retrieve my caddie post.  In the meantime, carry on just like nothing happened.

[Joel Zuckerman]

And do not underestimate the discomfort that many of us have with employing a "personal servant", even if only for four hours. For those who come from certain backgrounds, being "serviced" like that can seem like an incredibly pretentious and degenerate lifestyle.

Interesting response, and I can't say I haven't heard it before.  A good golf buddy of mine, someone with minimal caddie experiences, once said the same thing.  He also added the "intimacy factor" among the foursome vanishes, the same way you pipe down and halt the juicy gossip among your buddies when the waitress is serving the drinks or reciting the dinner specials.  I can understand the concept. 

Another buddy, also a caddie-using neophyte, claims he "doesn't want to be judged," though as a decent 10--12 handicap, I've assured him that no matter how badly he plays, any experienced caddy has seen players 20 times worse.  I think the more one uses a caddy, the less of a big deal it becomes.  They are making a nice hourly wage for their time, get lots of fresh air and exercise, have the chance to meet all sorts of people, and have a gorgeous "office."  There are tons of crappier jobs that pay far less than the $25--$35 per hour that a double-bagging caddie is going to make per loop.

[Anthony Gray]

  Caddies just carry your golf bag. Something that you would do youself. Considering this servanthood is a stretch. Some can help you read the greens wich your playing partners also do. I always try to include them in the conversation, many times they have better stories anyway.
  Anthony

[Will MacEwen]

And do not underestimate the discomfort that many of us have with employing a "personal servant", even if only for four hours. For those who come from certain backgrounds, being "serviced" like that can seem like an incredibly pretentious and degenerate lifestyle.

Interesting response, and I can't say I haven't heard it before.  A good golf buddy of mine, someone with minimal caddie experiences, once said the same thing.  He also added the "intimacy factor" among the foursome vanishes, the same way you pipe down and halt the juicy gossip among your buddies when the waitress is serving the drinks or reciting the dinner specials.  I can understand the concept. 

Another buddy, also a caddie-using neophyte, claims he "doesn't want to be judged," though as a decent 10--12 handicap, I've assured him that no matter how badly he plays, any experienced caddy has seen players 20 times worse.  I think the more one uses a caddy, the less of a big deal it becomes.  They are making a nice hourly wage for their time, get lots of fresh air and exercise, have the chance to meet all sorts of people, and have a gorgeous "office."  There are tons of crappier jobs that pay far less than the $25--$35 per hour that a double-bagging caddie is going to make per loop.

Joel,

The intimacy (for lack of a better word) factor is important.  My Bandon trips are with my oldest friends, and we only see each other maybe twice a year, at best.  Having caddies along, no matter how capable, would constitute an intrusion. 

[Mark Pearce]

  Caddies just carry your golf bag. Something that you would do youself. Considering this servanthood is a stretch. Some can help you read the greens wich your playing partners also do. I always try to include them in the conversation, many times they have better stories anyway.
  Anthony

Isn't the whole essence of "servanthood" the performance of menial tasks the master would otherwise perform themselves?

[George Pazin]

It is indeed wonderful to walk a course sans clubs and bag.

Having said that, I feel uncomfortable asking anyone to do anything for me, so it's certainly unnatural.

Mostly I go with the flow - if it's expected, I make do, try to treat the caddy as a friend; if I have the choice, I'd just as soon carry the bag myself.

[Kalen Braley]

It is indeed wonderful to walk a course sans clubs and bag.

Having said that, I feel uncomfortable asking anyone to do anything for me, so it's certainly unnatural.

Mostly I go with the flow - if it's expected, I make do, try to treat the caddy as a friend; if I have the choice, I'd just as soon carry the bag myself.

Thats the beauty of it, they just do, no asking required because its in the job description.... 

[George Pazin]

Thats the beauty of it, they just do, no asking required because its in the job description.... 

I'll spare you the indignities of pointing out who else acts like this.

Having said everything I've said, I'm still hoping to caddy for someone at the 2010 Women's Open at Oakmont.

 

[Sean Eidson]

I have had one caddie experience - as a member of a threesome at Bandon with 3 caddies

Things I liked:

-  Having someone else carry my bag helped me play 7 rounds in 3.5 days
-  My caddie was infinitely better at reading putts than I, especially at Bandon.  Helped me save par on the first and only gave one questionable read the rest of the trip
-  My caddie was a former aspiring tour pro and had great stories to tell about that
-  Never once complained when my game fell apart on the back nine of round 6 and he had to rake 4 bunkers on one hole
-  Another caddie in our group had great stories to tell about all 3.5 courses, after caddying for Coore, Doak, Keiser, etc.  He even lent us an autographed first edition of the Confidential Guide for us to review during the trip

Things I didn't like:
-  $200, on top of a $330 in greens fees for one day exceeds my monthly "golf" budget by $30.  Now do that for four days
-  After paying the $200 in caddie fees, I felt like it was a pretty meager existence for the caddies, considering the lack of health benefits, the uncertainty in employment, and the chance that you're stuck with a certifiable A-hole for a client
-  I didn't like the feeling of three people looking through gorse for my ball when I hit a terrible shot.  I felt like I had to call them off one too many times

[Adam_F_Collins]

The responses here are very interesting. One thing you're starting to hit on is the "intrusion factor". Personally, if I can walk onto a golf course and play just with people I'm friends with - I'd choose to do so every time. Sure, I've met others on a course in a foursome and found them to be a lot of fun, but I've had far more experiences with people I would've just as soon not had to spend my round with.

So I have the same initial feeling about caddies. They're people who I don't know, and they're costing money. So I'm inclined not to include them if I don't have to. I like to figure out my own strategy and to read my own greens, I like to carry...

They seem to me to be kind of "above-and-beyond", or "true frills" in today's golf picture. It's like paying a lot to keep an old tradition alive. Now this is coming from a guy who's never used one - so it's all an estimation. And I'd rather not see so many golf carts, so I do like the fact that people still use them. I just don't see myself being one of them.

Should I feel shame?

[Joel Zuckerman]

I've met others on a course in a foursome and found them to be a lot of fun, but I've had far more experiences with people I would've just as soon not had to spend my round with.



They seem to me to be kind of "above-and-beyond", or "true frills" in today's golf picture. It's like paying a lot to keep an old tradition alive. Now this is coming from a guy who's never used one - so it's all an estimation. And I'd rather not see so many golf carts, so I do like the fact that people still use them. I just don't see myself being one of them.

Should I feel shame?

As to your first point, once again, perhaps I've been lucky over the years.  I play tons of golf with folks I don't know--other golf writers on press trips, PR people, sometimes strangers when I'm off traveling by myself.  Rarely are any of my fellow players any worse than neutral, and many/most are pleasant, if not downright affable.  After all, we share the same passion!

As to your second point, I don't know if shame is the right word.  But it kind of reminds me of someone who disparages a certain book, or movie, play, etc.  When asked if they've actually seen it, they inevitably reply, "I don't need to see it--I know what it's all about."  IMO, just for the sake of experience, perhaps you should try a caddy at least one time, and then judge if the cost, discomfort at the concept, etc., still exists.

[astavrides]

  At Chambers Bay, Garland and I used Brandon Solomonson to caddy. He is a division 1 golfer at Seattle U and his father is head pro at The Classic in Spanaway WA the course Ryan Moore grew up on. After the round he joined us for lunch. Never looked at a caddy as a servant, more like having another golf buddy along.

  Anthony

The next time you are my golf buddy, I'll let you carry my bag and not hit any shots.

[Adam Clayman]

After reading this thread it occurs to me that peoples opinions about Caddies says more about them than the caddies they have had.

Joel,
 It's a huge leap to assume all the members of this forum are sophisticated in all aspects of golf.

The double bagger issue... It was always my attempt to club the guy before he left me for the other side of hell and gone. If, by the off chance, he did need a different club, I would bring it. Invariably, it was the right club or one that would extricate them from their predicament.

This came up yesterday at Ballyneal. Now, on the other side of the bag, I made sure that I kept the double bagger the whole round. Because I would club myself before he left me so he could concentrate on my guest.

A good caddy will size up your personality and game almost immediately.

AFC, It may help, when you do decide to take your first caddy, to tell them that.


 The best clients (not Masters) were the ones who owned up before the first tee that they sucked at this game.

 

[Norbert P]

Joel,
 It's a huge leap to assume all the members of this forum are sophisticated in all aspects of golf.

 Joel, trust Adam on this. He's played golf with Norbert Troglodyte.

[Jason Topp]

And do not underestimate the discomfort that many of us have with employing a "personal servant", even if only for four hours. For those who come from certain backgrounds, being "serviced" like that can seem like an incredibly pretentious and degenerate lifestyle.

Interesting response, and I can't say I haven't heard it before.  A good golf buddy of mine, someone with minimal caddie experiences, once said the same thing.  He also added the "intimacy factor" among the foursome vanishes, the same way you pipe down and halt the juicy gossip among your buddies when the waitress is serving the drinks or reciting the dinner specials.  I can understand the concept.  

I think these are totally different perspectives rather than similar ones.  As a person who transitioned from a muni to a club with mandatory caddies during peak times, I understand discomfort at having a caddie assist you.  I must say, however, in actual experience I have only have seen master/servant type relationships when the player is a jerk. Caddies that are jerks do not last long.  More often, it is a mutually beneficial and enjoyable relationship.

As to the "intimacy factor" I can not disagree more.  Even with caddies that did not do a good job, I almost have always found the bond between a group and caddies to be stronger than four people playing without them.  For whatever reason, caddies seem to add an interesting extra dimension to conversation that adds to the experience.

[Steve Kline]

I've taken caddies at numerous places - Pebble, Whistling Straits, PV, Pinehurst, Valhalla, and all over Scotland. Generally I've enjoyed the experience. It really is nice walking and not carrying your bag. At PV, I definitely received help in reading the greens as there were a couple I never would have gotten right. I've had a few great ones at Pinehurst - Rattlesnake being one of my favorites. One was twenty years ago. The first hole he told me the yardage. He then asked what club I hit. After that the guy clubbed me perfectly the whole way around. I liked the caddies better when it wasn't corporately run at Pinehurst. I liked all the black guys (that's not racist; my wife is black). I liked their personalities and enjoyed talking with them. And most of them had been around a long time so they really knew the course. I like for caddy to get involved in the round and be encouraging but not all can do this. I like to read the greens myself and get the caddy's advice if I can't figure out. I do think a good caddy could help an average player score better because most under club.

Here are the problems with caddies. They are expensive. I'm in good shape and can easily carry my bag 36 holes a day on virtually any course. Some are terrible green readers. Most caddies I've seen under read putts - which is not surprising given that Pelz says most players under read putts. Plus, I've never had a caddy ask me what speed I'm going to play the putt. As Crenshaw said in his putting video I watched over and over as a kid - Speed determines line not line determines speed. Also I rarely have caddies that ask how I play the shot. As a good golfer I always am trying to work the ball one way or the other. I don't just play a draw or fade all day. This really annoyed me at TOC the first time I played it. The caddy just said aim it here. Given the strong wind we playing in he never asked what I was trying to do with the ball. He also would never tell me where bunkers were or anything else. That might change my shot.

My dad is blind in his right eye and can really benefit from a caddy. This is especially true on a course he is unfamiliar with because he can't read greens or see far enough to tell what a hole does or where bunkers are. Even then he would prefer me to do all of that for him. Because we've played together for almost 30 years he knows how I read putts and I know how to describe a hole to him. That and I always describe his shot to him after he hits - how it got there and where it ended up.

[Anthony Gray]

  The expense factor I find confusing. Places that have caddies are usually expensive to play and expensive to stay. What's another 100 bucks?

  Anthony

[Scott Warren]

Anthony, as someone who scrimps and saves to have the cash that the top courses charge, "another 100 bucks", is part of the next course I hope to play.

For $100 and armed with a knowledgable partner or a strokesaver, I'll save the cash every time (and have, I have never paid for a caddy, and my dad remains the only person other than me to have carried my bag). My bag isn't so heavy.