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Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2009, 11:11:18 AM »
Washington Park was designed by CB Macdonald and Richard Lesley around 1896. Gates and Macdonald were members of the club so one can presume they were acquainted. The Macdonald connection may be a clue. Washington Park dates back to the 1880s with horse racing being its main interest. The golf course built on and around the infield of the race course.

Peter Pallotta

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2009, 11:22:30 AM »
Gib - in the event, just remember to design the same way you write. We can always user another off-the-cuff golf course (or at least one that looks that way...)

Good posts, thanks.

Peter


Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2009, 12:25:49 PM »
 8) was that Drake character related to EL Drake of Pennsylvania oil discovery fame.. an ultimate gamblers genetic code?



i thought there was a Ross course near Port Arthur..  and remember Baxter Spann mentioning it one time.. 

Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Sam Morrow

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2009, 01:07:28 PM »
8) was that Drake character related to EL Drake of Pennsylvania oil discovery fame.. an ultimate gamblers genetic code?



i thought there was a Ross course near Port Arthur..  and remember Baxter Spann mentioning it one time.. 



The Ross course in Sunsey Grove in Orange.

Gib_Papazian

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2009, 10:56:20 PM »
Tom,

It is difficult for me to get past my astonishment that of everyone in this Treehouse, you *particularly* would be the one who would lay that particular dig into the bleeding sore that has not healed to this day. Even harder to believe as a charter member of your damned fan club.

Let me respond in order of your assertions/questions:

#1. The exercise was framed within the assumption that money was no object. I promise you that *even* the dogmatic buffoons who inflict their mindless bullshit on good sense and rational land use would gladly trade the toxic cleanup of 500 acres of a military firing and munitions range for 150 acres of golf course. Dole and Ocean Mist farms are farming the adjoining properties - where they grow iceberg lettuce and perennial artichokes - so if nothing else, the other land owners would be thrilled to have the land next door suddenly have tangible value. Even the Enviro-Nazi's at the Sierra Club would cheer.

#2. If by some impossible chance, I had a permit to build a golf course west of Highway One at Fort Ord, I would certainly not build another "Macdonald Redux." The original suggestion a few years back by an obscure and forgotten golf scribe was to recreate "Lido" up north - a seed that we both know eventually germinated into the course you and Urbina are finishing off right now. It is nice to read in Time Magazine that Mike Keiser's desire to recreate Lido, the lost architectural masterpiece, was a "lifelong ambition." I studied at the feet of my hero George for many years, but it still does not sit well that an unrelated pedantic intellectual was automatically given a seat on the high council while I was left ignored. Maybe I am getting to be a bitter old man, but I have learned the hard way there is no reward for thinking outside the bun and blasting your ideas into the world. My years at Olympic were also a hard lesson.

So, if this circumstance comes to pass, I'll do one better. Dev Emmett's great-great grandson (if such a person exists) and I will wander about the nation (and Archerfield), sketch out the very best Tom Doak/Jim Urbina holes and sympathetically recreate a sort of "Doak Redux" there along Highway One in Seaside. If the puppet-masters bequeath upon us serfs the permits to build another 18, we'll start on the salient creations of your former cohorts and move forward. From Macdonald to Raynor to Charles Banks. DeVries and Kingsley Club can be the starting point, although Perry and P.B. might be a bit of a stretch. I'm guessing that we have enough genius for 36 holes without straying too far from the fountainhead.

I see where Barny gets his toxicity . . . . . . not that I condone or encourage it, but I am beginning to understand it.          
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 10:24:05 AM by Gib Papazian »

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2009, 11:10:56 PM »
 8)  Better get started on that Fort Ord CEQA EIR,.. probably take you 2-3 years.. even in this time of crisis.. time's a ticking not to try and live the dream
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Rich Goodale

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2009, 06:05:10 AM »
This is a classic gca.com non-thread.

Thanks, Gib, for elevating the depth of the conversation.

Gib_Papazian

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2009, 10:11:39 AM »
Rhic,

I sense a dram of sarcasm being launched from your Scottish village towards Hillsborough . . . . . .

But then again, everything looks like a nail to me lately.

 

Rich Goodale

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2009, 10:21:27 AM »
Gib

When I typed "elevating the depth" I meant it as a compliment.  Re-reading it sounded a bit funny, but I decided to keep it anyway.  No sarcasm meant or attempted, at least in the direction of Hillsborough.  Keep on hammering away.

Rich

Gib_Papazian

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2009, 02:47:56 PM »
Rhic,

The more I think about it, the more viable the idea appears. There seems to be a trend the last few years of using dumpsites to build "links courses," I suppose because trees plantings are confined mostly to varieties with surface roots - which are terrible for golf courses. However, the dunes along the Seaside (Fort Ord) coast must be the only ones in the nation (maybe the world) that are completely useless due to toxins and the danger of unexploded shells and whatnot.

Having Highway One adjacent to the property can also be perceived as a drawback, but no more than the busy railway lines all over the U.K. next to the golf courses. Carnoustie comes to mind, which is no more distracting than the airport runway next to Prestwick. Of course, it would not be unusual for the CCC to pawn off the cleanup on a private party and then tacitly let one of the Enviro-kook groups (Read: Sharp Park) hold up the permits in court with the usual war of attrition.

However, once again, the exercise is one of unlimited funds and perhaps now that David Murdoch has decided to take Dole public again, he might be interested in transforming the dunes into something of real value with the billions he will generate. Murdoch had a hand in Seven Oaks, Sherwood CC and Manele Bay, so anything is possible, even for a man 88 years young.            
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 02:52:01 PM by Gib Papazian »

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2009, 05:28:28 PM »
I made that drive last Sunday on my way to Carmel, my new wife even mentioned how it looked like good land for a course.  I had the same conversation with Mr. Michael Robin on Friday about the same piece of ground.  Seems like a viable idea Gib.  Also sounds like a financial nightmare just for the cleanup.  Which brings me to another idea.  Which GCA.com member are we going to have identifying, placing, and stringing those EOD's while wearing a 100 pound kevlar suit like you see in the film The Hurt Locker? Methinks that if Melvyn wants a true linksland course in the U.S, then he should bear the honor.

However, I WILL not go play it if it's christened "Old Gib Golf Links"

Gib_Papazian

Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.." New
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2009, 09:47:02 PM »
Ben,

The name of the golf course is "Redan Hills" laddie. My further thought would be exploring the possibility of partnering with the State of California in the cleanup. As it is, the land just sits fallow (wrong term, but close) and the erosion and percolation of rain and sea water intrusion will eventually seep into all sorts of sensitive places - like the surrounding artichoke, rapini and lettuce fields not to mention the backwash into the ocean.

I wonder if it would be possible to sift through the sand for bullet shells, lead and assorted debris using metal detectors. That might be an affordable alternative to a complete scrubbing of the sand dunes. What is there now is simply an enormous embarrassment for the military and Monterey County. It would be to everyone's advantage to hold hands and move towards a rational solution.

As for your message this afternoon, yes, you did send me a text at your bachelor party - which I have saved for just the right occasion . . . . . .

Selah,

g    

« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 01:26:14 AM by Gib Papazian »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.."
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2009, 12:33:49 AM »
8)  Better get started on that Fort Ord CEQA EIR,.. probably take you 2-3 years.. even in this time of crisis.. time's a ticking not to try and live the dream

Fort Ord Coast Line
"... and I liked the guy ..."

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "..the finest golf course in the world.." New
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2009, 12:49:52 AM »
Wow, a couple of photo scans either side of this feature are positively a wet dream!!!  :o :o :o 8)



But, doesn't this get into the same problems they had at Dye-Trumps course or the cliff cave-ins they had near Torrey Pines about 20 years ago?  Doesn't those sand cliffs have a huge failure rate, particularly when they get the la nina years?  :-\

PS:  ooops a pity but you have to sign your life away to capture and post one of the scans.  But, it is the huge rumpled feature southeast of the start point that is in Mike B's link.

http://www.californiacoastline.org/cgi-bin/image.cgi?image=200508179&mode=sequential&flags=1&year=2005

PS II:  Gib, I had heard (can't confirm) that old man Kohler used some political pull to get them to grant a old munitions contamination clean-up from the superfund at the now site of Whistling Straits, which was an old dive bomber run practice range where I guess they practiced letting go of the under the plane torpedo bombs, like the rig Old man GHW Bush was famous for in his flight that ended suddenly in the south Pacific in the famous sub plucking him out of the drink footage.  I noted that Prez. GHW Bush did do the innaugral event at WS the week of the BWRun US Womens, whre he was prominently also in attendance.  I can't tell you if there is any irony or connection there, however...  ::)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 01:04:16 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.