[John Kirk]

Do you trust scientists?

Disgusting thread.

[Sean_A]

So then where do you draw the line?

Here is my view of situations like this: If your guys are in control, you inherently trust that what they're doing is the right thing. If the other guys are in control, you inherently believe they are making the situation worse WHICHEVER ACTION THEY CHOOSE. (And I use the word "you" generally here, not specifically.)

That's the problem with this site or any other discussion board. We all trust different people. Me, I trust no politicians, and I mean none, exactly zero, to place country before his own political interests.

George

I don't think drawing a line at Baja California unreasonable at all considering cases Texas and California have been reported.  

I don't trust politicians either.  Unfortunately, it doesn't matter if I trust them or not - they still make the decisions. In this case, we are lucky that we have proper experts to advise rather than the usual political hacks posing as if they are experts.  As long as this is the case, I prefer the "safe rather than sorry" approach.  

Ciao

[George Pazin]

Do you trust scientists?

Disgusting thread.

John, my Dad IS a research scientist. He spent a good bit of his career researching AIDS. When he cautioned people against certain risky behavior, he was repeatedly slurred as a homophobe. He received threats when he was merely trying to get people to respect certain aspects of a DEADLY disease. I myself read science books in my spare time. Scientists disagree all the time, or they are no longer scientists, they are ideologues.

To clarify further, I have no doubt that every politician THINKS he is placing country first. The problem is, every one of them - and damn near every one of us - is so convinced beyond all doubt that his position is the correct one that this outweighs every possible consideration of what may be right or wrong. It's not for nothing that there are no objective standards for measuring the results of policy decisions. Every politician I've ever seen always talks only of benefits, never costs. Costs are real, and are always there, regardless of how much they are ignored.

[Jim_Kennedy]

 

[George Pazin]

Jim, polls are perhaps the worst measuring stick possible, unless your goal is simply to be popular or re-elected - which, coincidentally, happens to be the goal of most politicians, I believe.

[George Pazin]

Do you trust scientists?

Disgusting thread.

Here is one simple example of one dissenting scientist:

My dad was giving a lecture to a class of med students at the med school where he taught. He asked, Is there such thing as safe sex? The highly educated crowd sat silent, shaking their heads - until my dad thumped his hand on the podium and said "Of course - sex with an uninfected partner!" For such EXTREME behavior - believing in encouraging voluntary testing among a population engaged in much risky behavior - my dad was subject to threats and slurs by a population with as much scientific knowledge as my 5 year old son.

Scientists are like the rest of us, subject to beliefs that influence thought. There are damn few that have the spine to stand up to rigorous analysis. Contrary to popular belief, there are scientists on both sides of most issues - whether it's public health policy, science policy, or even plain old golf course architecture beliefs. The questions such as those discusses on this thread are never as simple as they seem. One decision to be "safe rather than sorry" can have unforeseen effects on many many lives.

For all the discussion of nuance and black and white, it's amazing to me how often damn near everyone feels his side is the nuanced side and the other the simple minded black and white folks.

There is nothing nuanced about the belief that only one's own side is correct and the other is always wrong.

My dad and I discussed public health policy throughout my formative years. If there's one thing I learned from that, it's that there are no simple decisions; another would be that there are no purely scientific decisions.

[Craig Sweet]

It's funny, but I do not remember Obama closing the schools in Fort Worth and taking the drastic measures in Mexico, or for that matter taking any of the "local" action regarding swine flu....

I think he said take the same precautions you would with any cold/flu and if you can avoid traveling to areas with high infection rates you should...otherwise be careful.

[George Pazin]

 

[Doug Ralston]

I was booted for talking politics here. I was allowed to return by agreeing not to do so, So I won't. OTOH, I cannot see how the whole bunch of you are still here, let alone this thread.

May I make a mild suggestion? Well, I will anyway. STFU!!!!!

[Greg Tallman]

Believe me, Dick, it's all I can do to keep from entering the fray.

I certainly don't want to alienate myself from Greg Tallman, who I recently shared a friendly exchange with.  But there's no good reason to tack Obama's name onto his initial thread. Virtually every high-end golf facility is hurting right now, flu symptoms or not.

I hate this thread.   

John, No worries in stating your dislike of my inclusion of Obama in what was honestly intended to be little more than a FYI. One will never alienate themsleves with me based on a difference of opinion or even a strong distatste for my characterization of a person or situation. Healthy debate is good... NO it is essential, on all topics at all levels.

The hysterical reaction to the flu issue on the heels of unprecented economic times = major problems and things have gotten far more dire since last week. Unemployment of say 40-60% in a region is something to get a little up in arms about.

And for the record I honestly feel his administration unduly added to the hysteria and fed the necessary "quotes" to an overzealous media who had already completely misreprted the drug was problem in this country. And the masses are all too willing to take it as gospel.

Also for any Canadians in the forum... your health minister is the only sane person commenting on this issue, to paraphrase... "poor Mexico, we have a strain much stronger and more contagious throughout Canada right now... has killed 300+... gross overreaction..."

And for the record still ZERO cases reported in all of Baja California Sur yet airlines are pulling out... etc. Oh well. 

[Greg Tallman]

Keeps getting worse. All politics aside Cabo will have changed forever if we ever emerge from this devastation. This is hard to watch. I am sure others have been through worse, non life threatening issues than we are facing today but saying goodbye to people who have been fiercely loyal, totally reliable and just good people is very, very hard.

Took a stroll downtown last evening and this place is a ghost town... about 15 people in Cabo Wabo at 10:30. Those that have been here know how ridiculous that is. I do not see how ANY business can justify opening the doors this summer. My earlier 40-60% unemployment guess may have been conservative.

Actually could be a fun summer as it looks like I may reacquaint myself with mowning greens and fairways before all is said and done... better than sitting in an office. If you are heading this way do not look for perfect striping of the fairways as it has been 20 years since I have done such a thing.

I suppose we all need a reality check now and again and as they say... that which does kill you only makes you stronger... if true look for me in the World's Strongest Man contest next year.

[Raymond]

Greg,

Since I will be heading your way in a couple of weeks, what is the update on the economic situation in Cabo in recent weeks. Understandably, the hurricane didn't help matters, but is tourism coming back?

Ray

[Greg Tallman]

Greg,

Since I will be heading your way in a couple of weeks, what is the update on the economic situation in Cabo in recent weeks. Understandably, the hurricane didn't help matters, but is tourism coming back?

Ray

Still rather bleak. Even the businesses catering almost exclusively to locals are suffering tremendously... just no money flowing here right now. Things are rough and the season shows little promise. If we do 30,000 rounds between our 2 courses in 2010 I will be pleasantly surprised.

Staffing cuts continue for all area businesses.

That said there has never been a better time to visit. Hotels historically aorund $350-$400 per night are available on line for less than $100 and even the ultra luxury hotels are throuwing everything but the klitchen sink into their regular rates.

look forward to meeting you during your visit. Diamante is a done deal, just let me know when you wish to play.

[Raymond]

Greg,

Sorry to hear the suffering continues in Cabo. The poverty was bad enough before, I can't imagine what it must be like now.
Hopefully as the economies around the world stabilize tourism will return. I do fear the renewed media attention regarding H1N1 will have a negative effect on pleasure travel over the coming months.

Thanks for the hook-up at Diamante. I am anxious to have a look. I'll email you my travel details. I hope you have the opportunity to join me in a round or two while I'm there.

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